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Old 09-02-2008, 07:23 PM   #26
jayhawks
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

sigh, i'm a loser and looked it up. page 428 in Super System I. Moss isn't even mentioned.
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:25 PM   #27
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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So are you saying that you cheat?
I don't go it alone when I play online. But even in Greenstein's book they had a group effort going.
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:28 PM   #28
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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sigh, i'm a loser and looked it up. page 428 in Super System I. Moss isn't even mentioned.
he is in SSII iirc
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:33 PM   #29
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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he is in SSII iirc
he's in SSI, just not in this particular hand.
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:35 PM   #30
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

I heard this story about Moss and Doyle on ESPN, they did the little segment about the best hand i ever played a couple summers ago. Some other sick stories like Barry mucking the top house and the other guy showing quads and Farha mucking quads in Omaha and the other guy showing SF.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:16 PM   #31
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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I don't go it alone when I play online. But even in Greenstein's book they had a group effort going.
hope you get a venerial disease you pos
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:48 PM   #32
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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I don't go it alone when I play online. But even in Greenstein's book they had a group effort going.
If you're playing on Stars, so much for their ballyhooed collusion detection security team.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:51 PM   #33
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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I don't go it alone when I play online. But even in Greenstein's book they had a group effort going.
If more of this stuff comes out, then we will all know why more players are shortstacking online.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:17 PM   #34
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

OP, you know they also all carried guns back then. Often placed them out on the table.

And people got robbed. And shot.

And the locals were certainly cheating, soft-playing, fake-shuffling, bottom-dealing, cold-decking, marked-decking, peepholing, etc. etc.

And poker was illegal.

So you had to find the game... beat the (probably rigged) game... and get out with the money, avoiding the cops, the robbers, and the hustlers.

Doyle's OK in my book. Even if he LOL "colluded".
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:16 PM   #35
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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I think the newest generation thinks it's more a video game than yachting, and judging from behavior, not so much a gentlemanly sport. But I do agree that they are naive, as most any newbie would be, to the hazards and shadiness in the game's history (and sometimes) its present.
Yes they are so naive.

They hide behind their computer screens and don't realize there is a whole world of corruption going on right under their noses.

I still believe it's just a matter of time before online gaming gets cracked big.

Too much money for the taking.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:56 AM   #36
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by pineapple888 View Post
OP, you know they also all carried guns back then. Often placed them out on the table.

And people got robbed. And shot.

And the locals were certainly cheating, soft-playing, fake-shuffling, bottom-dealing, cold-decking, marked-decking, peepholing, etc. etc.

And poker was illegal.

So you had to find the game... beat the (probably rigged) game... and get out with the money, avoiding the cops, the robbers, and the hustlers.

Doyle's OK in my book. Even if he LOL "colluded".
I was going to make a similar comment, np. Considering in those days you could be beat up, robbed, and or/shot & buried in the desert with no one the wiser, I'm sure Doyle & Co. did their best to ensure there wasn't even the slightest hint of collusion in their play.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:06 AM   #37
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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I'm sure Doyle & Co. did their best to ensure there wasn't even the slightest hint of collusion in their play.
That's my point. They wouldn't need to actually collude.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:21 AM   #38
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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That's my point. They wouldn't need to actually collude.
I'm agreeing; I was trying to say they would play super "straight up" because the accusation of collusion could be fatal. Didn't flesh out my argument enough.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:31 AM   #39
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Yeah. In hindsight, it's strange that the pros even agreed to play him. With all the steps he took to make sure nobody was cheating, they must've come up with some pretty crazy way to beat him!
There was no need. He had to play all the hands and got tired. They could continually send in fresh players with different styles and had people sweating the table to look for his tendencies.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:00 PM   #40
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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It's no different than online play today- if you are playing 6 handed and aren't on the phone with at least two other players then you are the sucker.

This is a pretty sad statement, good luck in life.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:28 PM   #41
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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This is a pretty sad statement, good luck in life.

Thanks, I don't need luck in life I have skill.

Online poker is another thing btw I played it straight until I learned everybody else was on the phone with their buddies hell even Greenstein admitted he was on the phone with Ivey when they played online.- that's why most of my play is live- and if three asians are at the table I don't know I won't play- am I a bigot? maybe but when you are out in the parking lot and see them all drive in from Houston together and then come into the poker room in a staggered rotation you learn pretty quick what's going on.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:36 PM   #42
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

I don't think it's automatically cheating for 3 people to play out of the same roll. It doesn't matter where the money goes after the game. It doesn't effect the other's ability to win some of it from the 3. If the 3 didn't soft play eachother, that's all that matters. If a squeeze play is used against a fish, that's just poker and no different than a fish putting the squeeze play on Slim, Sailor, or Doyle.

We have a regular home game where there are a few pillars and 99% of the newcomers are eaten alive. We don't collude. Granted we know how each other plays and I don't give the solid rocks as much action as I give the fish. That's just poker.

Johnny Hughes was one of the very few that came to our game and left with fatter pockets. He was careful to pick his spots just like a solid poker player should.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:47 PM   #43
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by johnnyironboard View Post
Thanks, I don't need luck in life I have skill.
why do you need to collude while you play online you f'ing pos?
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:12 PM   #44
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

Ivey and greenstein were playing each other hu. The story is that ivey over calls his hand "by accident" when he bets the river.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:15 PM   #45
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by johnnyironboard View Post
hell even Greenstein admitted he was on the phone with Ivey when they played online.

dude i think your taking that out of context. barry metnioned this on HSP onetime but was talking about playing ivey H/U on FTP and talkin on the phone at the same time.... they were playing eachother, not colluding against others. geeez.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:47 PM   #46
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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why do you need to collude while you play online you f'ing pos?
It's fun- I only play with play money online. I get on the phone with my bro and we have a good time esp during play money tourneys- our favorite play is to set limp with AA or KK and then the other pump it when a few guys call and then put in the big re-raise- BINGO BANGO.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:58 PM   #47
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by tmcdmck View Post
is it weird that i consider cheating at poker these days really scummy, but back in pre-casino poker days part of the game ?
it`s stupid thats for sure.
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:04 PM   #48
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

This thread sucks, I hate cheaters. Not Doyle, ect. because I never played during that era. **** I've played close to a million hands of poker and only been to Vegas once and Tunica twice. No casinos in my home state. ***** cheaters.
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:56 PM   #49
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by johnnyironboard View Post
Thanks, I don't need luck in life I have skill.

Online poker is another thing btw I played it straight until I learned everybody else was on the phone with their buddies.
Who is "everbody else" you speak of? You must know alot of online poker players personaly that would give you this kind of information.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:14 PM   #50
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Re: Collusion and the old Texas road gamblers

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Originally Posted by +EV View Post
Poker is not all about cheating. The only person who would think that is someone who can not win any other way. Poker is about edges. Sometimes conmen exploit edges and sometimes degn's win. But poker is not about cheating.

+EV
Great point.
Another point was that young people were naive.
How about all of the pompous casino insiders like dealers having no idea about players looking for an edge, paying attention and knowing the rules.
They want to protect the nits and tourists and new players and make sure the game is enjoyable? Enjoyable?
Let's just play, we are not at summer camp.
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