LINDGREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And again, I think this idea is utter stupidity. But that is why this will keep happening to "respected pros".

yeah, I'm surprised he hasn't been hurt but when you roll with The Grinder and his crew...he should be fine.

But as others have said, just stop lending him money. It's like giving out loans to people with **** credit scores...they're super risky and your chances of getting that money back are slim.

What's funny is the places that give loans out to people with **** credit scores charge high interest rates to mitigate the risk. Not 0% like the "respected pros" do.

If your a professional its a necessity. say you go to pca with $30,000 after you enter the main, plane tickets/hotel+spending money you have maybe 15k and a super juicy $50/$100 deep game starts. sure you can buyin for 10k and hope to run it up but the fish in the game are sitting with 30k and splashing every pot. What if you bust, are you just going to take one shot at a very profitable game? You need to be able to get that money and if you never loan money to anybody why should anyone loan to you?

Of course theres risk in it but ffs this is poker not chess You take a hundred risks a hour in the hopes it will pay off later, that's what the game is all about.

Edit: also to your idea of charging interest is perfectly fine but It goes both ways next time you borrow you will be charged (and it probably makes you more likely to not get paid). Also this will make you look like stingy greedy and cheep and that will hurt you later on in one way or another.

Casinos will allow you wire money into them and they'll gladly get you the needed money relatively quickly. Especially if you contact the Rio or wherever you're going to be about the possibility beforehand. Also, you can get lines of credit with the casinos (yes even for poker) that can get you the $30k you need instantly. But obviously being the "respected pro" is more important so eventually you will get screwed or you'll be pulling a Chino on someone else. However if one is a degenerate it won't matter and planning isn't really part of the equation.

There's ways around everything you say, just takes a modicum of planning that most people won't do. Or simply they're playing outside their BR.

I'm glad I learned my lessons earlier in life with smaller amounts of money that having people like me or being a "respected pro" isn't so important. Respect in this profession doesn't seem to be all people want it to be.

The other thing I want to address is this statement. I never understood how people who barely know each other can lend sums of money approaching large without written Agreements and payment terms. I don't borrow money without them and wouldn't lend money without it. Yes, even my friends know this. If it's someone who is unreliable (just about any poker player), I won't lend it or instead will take some collateral like a pawn shop would. Simple common sense.

Keep bad habits and you will eventually get burned. It's only a matter of time.

reputation and honor (it does actually exist) plain and simple. (remember what i said before about looking cheap and greedy?) like i said its risky but if you're smart and do it selectively it can be worth it.

I'm owed money right now that i probably wont see again but that's just a part of the game. I told everyone i could they haven't paid/probably wont and hopefully it will save some of them from losing more later. But on the other hand because I took risks like that i've been able to play after losing my case money. even once won a small tournament i borrowed to get in after busting all the money i brought in a cash game.

"Keep bad habits and you will eventually get burned. It's only a matter of time."

true and probably unavoidable unless you just never borrow but The bottom line is its just worth it. Its been around since the first poker game ever played for a reason.

Also bank wires take time and lines of credit are the same as borrowing from friends just more hassle and get alot uglier if you cant pay right away.

There's nothing wrong with borrowing/lending with other poker players, as you long as you understand you will get burned sooner or later and you're happy with that.

People who worry a lot about being paid back belong in banking, not poker. As pointed out, reputation is everything. Mess that up and the well dries up.

LINDGREN!

I know it's difficult to explain but poker players and big gamblers in general are more trusting than the average person. A lot of us don't value money as much as maybe we should and the thought is that since we are gambling on cards, dice, etc.. why not people???

I will be the first to admit, I was probably just as bad as someone like Chino back in 2005, 2006. I had a serious gambling problem with a game called pai-gow. All I wanted to do it seemed was get money to play that stupid game. I was actually having a good year poker tournament wise(my first full year playing tournaments) but all my winnings went right into Pai Gow.

Ultimately, I started borrowing(actually lying to be more specific) to get money. I was approaching poker players I hardly knew and telling them I was getting a wire the next day and asked if I could borrow money. The sad thing about it was that a fair amount of these people trusted me and loaned me money. $3000 here. $4000 there, $5000, $1000 - all sorts of amounts. I hardly ever won at Pai Gow so I had no money to pay anyone back. I was really out of control and when I finally and luckily won a preliminary circuit event for $66,000 - there was a line of people to collect their money and it took a long time to pay everybody back.

My point here is that poker players seem to be generally trusting people and unfortunately, there will always be scams, cons because of that trust. I was so out of control that I had to take 3-4 years off and get away from the casino environment. Now, I'm proud to say I don't borrow from anyone, any player, any damn body and I stay away from that pai-gow game. I focus strictly on poker and if I lose in a particular tournament then oh well - I wait for the next one. I'm not embarrassed to write this about myself because I feel I have changed a lot and am not the same person 7 years ago. Believe me though, these kinds of stories go on all the time but I'm just glad I'm not a part of it anymore.

That well takes a whole lot of time to dry up in certain cases, for ex Lindgren's where no one was outing him because they wanted to be the first to get their money back.

If you play in fairly large games, loaning/lending will definitely be +ev IF you do it intelligently.
Chances of getting burnt also have a lot to do with your personality and the image you project.
If you look and act like a puss.y, people will definitely take advantage of you more than if you look like you're going to go ape**** bare knuckles on the first guy who doesn't pay up immediatly.

What odds could i get that larryspizza and TheG0ldenJ3w share the same ip?

Maybe the biggest difference is that gambling money is not as real, or is not as valuable as real-life money is.
What's a dollar worth? A lot depends on where you are....a gas station, or a casino?
So, lending gambling money, which you should be able and even prepared to lose, is not all that big a deal.

I'd give you great odds we aren't but is your credit good?

Well, I cannot condone what you did back in 2005-6 time but I do commend you for realizing you needed to get away for a while. Stay vigilant because it's easy to slip back into.

First - Is it honorable to not pay someone back? I guess in the world of your "respected professionals" honor does not encompass that aspect.

Bank wires don't get ugly if you can't pay right away. If you don't have the funds you don't get the money. Plain and simple. I guess if you're playing out of your bank roll, you probably don't want to get casino credit because you will ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY THAT BACK. So if you're intention is to pull a Chino Rheem on someone when you eventually lose, then yes it's better not to go that route.

Also, I find it funny that bank roll management seems to go out the window with your scenarios in the high stakes games with "respected professionals". No matter how juicy a game is if it's out of your BRM, you shouldn't be playing it because eventually you will lose in one of them and if you're playing too high, it only takes once.

Reputation and respect do matter in life very much. Just with people who actually matter. They absolutely exist but to have it as a goal in this world where most "respected professionals" turn out to be charlatans, degenerates, and con artists is it really worth it?

If one chooses to live their life so worried about what others like these people think of them, well...... good luck with that.

lol i wouldnt loan you the money to make that bet

Being those things is in poker is not the same as in rl. It's like saying boxers are "violent" people.. well, yeah.. they are, but it's part of their game.
Poker players (some) are practiced expert liars, bluffers, and pretenders.. Few if any are Mother Theresa.

Someone might misuse those talents to borrow money they never intend to repay, but so what? It's a small world. They will pay the price sooner or later, in one way or another. And, I'd rather get stiffed for some money than continue to mistakenly treat that person as a decent, upstanding member of the poker community.

Lol, you wanna be "respected professionals" keep proving my point. Good luck with that.

Maybe we're just not thinking along the same lines.
There are many fields of endeavor where money is a tool of the trade, and where you must interact with the same people, over and over.. from poker to billiards, to drug dealing, to gun running.
Honest businesses commonly "front" eachother materials, products, etc without a contract, in sums that are too small to litigate over. If they don't pay, it's a lesson learned. Chalk it up to experience.
And when things go haywire, or you're in a bad spot and need help, like a loan or something, your reputation is all you really have.

Yes, like gun running. A "respected professional".

Larry.. why not skip to the bottom line and just tell us why you're here. Have you been disrespected recently, and feel the need to spread it around?

No, I'm just astounded at the continued stupidity/justifications of people who complain on here about stuff like this.