I already suggested we leave the adhomins out. Do you refuse? This is a poker forum for dialogue not "fan boys sticking up for their boy forum". Are you putting your name behind that Joey knows what GTO means?

I don't think he does. And I think much of the posters in this thread also don't which is why Joey can get away with baseless accusations.

I am going to ask for the base to his accusation. I am going to scrutinize his knowledge on ALL of this...and I suspect the mods will let me this time...because the mods here like to uphold logic and quell adhomins.

People like Mason, Skalasky, Bobo Fett, Haven etc...like to hold the integrity of this forum together.

Joey, do you defend yourself? Or just your fan boy ad homin attackers do your work? My guess is Joey is done with this topic.

edit: troll and idiot and crazy are attacking words in which the sayer of them hopes he has enough reputation in the eyes of the other posters and mods/admins that they can get the receiver's opinion effectively wiped off of it. I think they are terribly immoral words in that context and should be VERY shunned. They are also lazy words that often come from contentless posts and contentless posters.

At this point, the Create & Greenspirit connection and account sharing should be confirmed by ACR sometime soon but I don't have much faith in them. I have incredibly in-depth messages from more than one person that I am hoping we can get on the record talking about. I have forwarded this information to Dan at ACR. I do believe 44bars to have a connection with these accounts with PLO & with tournaments. I also don't think they need to be winning. I have no idea of what type of specifics might be going on. This combined with being banned on a different site for something similar plus this thread initially is why I included him in someone for ACR to look into and others to provide their own experiences. It was more than a random hunch. If it is out of line either way, I'm okay with it.

Other players providing information like this is one of the points to begin with. I've said it a bunch but I really do want to be wrong about it.

And you're not the first one to do so. But others have managed to do it without turning their questions into a derail about the meaning of GTO, and long, semi-intelligible off topic rants.

If you mean more derails about the meaning of GTO and hints at "Ideal Poker" or whatever you're on about - no, you're not.

I'd suggest the way you use "fan boy" is also something of an ad hominem attack.

Now you are looking like a bit of a troll - someone doesn't post for 7 hours in the thread, and they're done with it?

You've made your points. Time to dial it down a few notches.

Edit to add: Gee, whadaya know...I guess Joey isn't done with the thread after all!

I don't think You have the first clue what GTO means even Myself responding is not GTO but YOLO . . .




Yale ECON 159

About the Course
This course is an introduction to game theory and strategic thinking. Ideas such as dominance, backward induction, Nash equilibrium, evolutionary stability, commitment, credibility, asymmetric information, adverse selection, and signaling are discussed and applied to games played in class and to examples drawn from economics, politics, the movies, and elsewhere.
https://oyc.yale.edu/economics/econ-159


(Good place to start IMO) . . .

Side note when You get older You will hopefully realize there is a entire Universe floating right above You . . .#Lovelife

Bobo Fett, do you have a button on your forum admin toolbar that would make this guy switch post counts with me? I think I’ve shown in this thread and others that I’m wise beyond my years and I could really do some good with a post count of 900+. I feel I have a large enough sample size that shows I don’t derail threads, I don’t shamelessly try to get the negative attention of super famous players in forum, I don’t try to make someone else’s thread about myself and I have above average grammar and spelling.

If this is not possible I understand completely. Thank you for your consideration.

I agree I'm down can I pick up a mushroom to decrease My posts as I always have had a thing for long time members with low post count's lol not even a joke lol I think I may start a new thread with the winner of oldest accounts winning a few bucks in good spirit . . .

As for Your rambling words, , , , . . .

what makes you think this? i've seen some shady **** at 200 zone but i usually just ignore it because the players are all awful and probably do awful ****

Ok I get everyone's sentiments towards me in this thread now that I wactched the video. But what you all don't know is me and Joey have a(n important) history together. FURTHERMORE, Joey gave Anksy the mic in order to lead the players boycotts against poker stars. While I was telling everyone a players boycott is game theoretically stupid, it CAN'T work because once the smart players participate the profitability of the games goes up and no one really has incentive then to defect (sound familiar). But I had a solution that WOULD work, but this clique of players drowned me out and made sure that no one ever HEARD my proposal. Then ansky took a free vacation with stars in exchange for abandoning their efforts.

You are pissed off Joey?

Yes I understand you can see collusion, you can see bots, you can see cheating, but we both understand the function of sites and their incentives in regard policing it. We both understand the more these things are policed the harder they get to detect. So a long time ago I birthed an important conjecture: Bots can't be stopped.And you ridicule me like others for trying make a change. The same change you want. My understanding is deeper and my proposal is novel. But you wouldn't even hear it. You don't want change, you want fame and attention.

How many people in your life do you have saying to you “I KNOW how to fix this unfix-able problem?” And yes my writing is strange, it has to be, because I never know when I am going to get banned and all my hard work for the players and community and the game is going to get deleted while the community and YOU ridicules me for it.

Even if I was crazy that would be a terrible way for you and others to act....But its not deniable, and after many months of dialogue in the decentralization of poker thread I have earned enough respect to have my lifeban lifted at least for now, and I think even some of my articles explaining my solution are being unbanned. You know...my ideas?

David Gzesh said he would vouch for me to speak to you, he asked if i would be ok with it, and I had to basically decline because it will ruin his name with you because you think I am a POS. It takes A LONG time to understand me and my proposal. But those that are playing on coinpoker will understand it VERY soon.

Let us jump ahead in thought....imagine ACR said, yes we allow bots, and they are our bots, BUT we take the won money and overlay the tournaments and pay out extra prize and rakeback for the players with it, so that the games are more profitable and more liquid....Imagine they said “Joey, we used YOUR strategy profile to make sure that OUR site is the most profitable site in the industry”. Ie they made sure YOU Joey win more on their site than any other, meaning so does every other player...

Would bots and collusion be acceptable? Would you care, if ACR is more +ev than any other site, even if their was rampant cheating. Its a VERY important question, and this is why we are at odds. Because you and the community say how passionate you are about solving this problem of bots. And I keep telling you YOU CANT DO IT. And I keep telling you I HAVE.

And this is not a derail it is the most important dialogue to be had in poker right now and if I wanted to derail joey's **** I'd be posting his main thread. I am being PERFECTLY on point to this thread. I KNOW what I am talking about in regard to the future of poker. I've been talking to agents, I've been talking to lawyer's I've been talking to owners of emerging sites, I've been working with developers and marketing teams of these emerging sites...all to solve the problem of making ACR better...

But the one person that won't even address me, the same person that claims he wants the same solution I claim to provide, just ridicules me is the one person that players NEED to understand this proposal. Ask Gzesh, how knows more about the future of poker and the emerging technology....me or you...he'll laugh...

Ask Josem...
Ask Tony G...

After watching your video...I can't BELIEVE you won't even give me the time of day.I'd rather like to berate the **** of you for being such an ass to me...but I know I can help this game and community (especially the security in regard to crypto) if I can just stay in long enough for some moral players to realize I'm not an idiot.

edit PS, do any of you idiots and trolls in this thread have any NOVEL ideas on how would could fix ACR and other sites cheating problems?

google rheomode.

Say what ?

Back in November re the decentralized poker thread you were prolifically posting in, I once asked you if you'd want to go on Chicago Joey's podcast and, if so, I could pitch it to him. I thought it would make for a good video at the time.

You might make me sound sane right now Noose, let's make it a podcast.

Nooseknot, the ideas in your last post sound great. It’s just really hard to take you seriously at this point after being painfully literal by obsessing over Joey’s use of GTO and then admitting that you came in here not even having watched the video. Also you accuse others of argumentum ad hominem while calling Joey an ass.

You’re a really smart guy but unless you polish your somewhat manic depressive approach, nobody is ever going to listen to you.

As I type that, Joey agreees to a podcast lol. I stand by my response though still good advice.

to be fair this sounds reasonable too. there could be one or two (or a ring of people) knowing your cards by infecting your computer. maybe they pass you around

you would probably feel the same, paranoid, doubting yourself and others, wtf is happening, strange dynamic etc

Joey's crack cocaine habit is paid for by his poker winnings but he seems a good guy and has an interesting youtube channel. Sup Papiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

yes that.

It's an esoteric way of saying my approach is more logical (and trying to open a dialogue). Sometimes trolling is the only way to get into someone's head. Once I watched the video I saw joey cared.

On the one hand, in the way you want I will. On the other, in the you want, I'll blow your mind, make you more crazy

Calling people crazy really upsets me, its a way of dismissing everything they are.

I can't doxx myself is all. I have done some big (good things) but I don't want fame for it. We might extend the dialogue in this thread a little first. Basically the key to the esoteric points I made is that, that (my bolded reference to the ACR question in my previous post) is how coinpoker works. They adjust the level of the profitability of their games based in a transparent fashion (sounds unbelievable) and so even if there WERE bots or collusion it wouldn't REALLY matter to the general player would it?

IF sites arose that ALL did this (they are, I have been scouting multiple projects)...but ACR didn't, how fast would ACR be screwed?

Thats the best I can paraphrase. I didn't know you were truly visibly upset joey, but I think we can turn everything around...you were recently previously beating a brick wall, which can be difficult on the psyche. I have a way around to the other side, and its quite beautiful in regard to the poker that will reside their.

But I obviously could use a translator

The image I posted previously in this thread is a general old representation of it, and there is new technology that has been birthed since that is quite relevant (which I knew was coming so built my ideas in regard to). And we would talk about the coinpoker model and why it will force legacy sites to smarten up or die. There is a lot more...it is hard to compress.

When I could but make a tweet here or there, or only posting knowing it would be deleted near instant the compressing made it necessarily unintelligible. I have experience speaking on a mic, and have been calling quite intelligible in other dialogues with voice, I just can't be on camera.

And my intention here isn't a cast, I would just as well have text dialogue. I just know if you could understand the surface of this, we could change the game overnight.

If you really do feel you would do it, I couldn't refuse, because I know how much this will affect the world, for me and you to talk, although have some commitments, I would drop most of them...so at your leisure sir.

Imo, this dialogue would be about "What is 'Ideal Poker', what is 'Ideal Money' and what is the special relationship between the two". And would certainly involve the discussion about the unsolvable (but now solved) bot/collusion/cheating problem.

If players want a primer they could check out the decentralized poker thread in nvg, and it is the best place to understand model coinpoker is using (which many sites will soon use in order to compete with the emerging poker site model I developed).

Ahhhhhhh, it is you rextar aka (I think juice or joose or some ****), I thought you finally gave it up.

sup

We need you to bring awareness to the emerging poker site model, like coinpoker. Its going to asymptotically take the power in the industry from the existing status quo legacy sites. I want to explain to you what it means to hold "deflationary chips". Chips that increase in value over time, simply by holding them.

There are many such sites arising with their own variation of this new model, and so the landscape of the industry is going to change from sites that control the rake in a hidden manner and constantly decrease the value of the chips to sites that constantly increase the value of their chips.

Then we can understand the relationship between the unsolvable bot/cheating/collusion problem and "effective rake". That the two concepts are not really separable and so we can solve the cheating by, as players, favoring sites that value target effective rake in a 100% transparent fashion.

Does this interest you? I promise it will, and it will be fun, and have many ahhhh moments just like your juice one

Then my tweets will make sense.

You are just one of several people posting in this, and other threads, regarding verification/docs being a problem for players/botters.

Smart people running these bots will not have any issue getting legitimate documents from legitimate people who whos names will then be on those accounts (before the account in question is set up). Should the site at anytime request docs, these ones will just be sent in and approved in the vast majority of cases. It costs about $100 to get such documents in western countries and is probably much less in countries that people believe this bots are originating from.

People who are casually running off the shelf bots are probably using their own name on the account. They could easily extend to family/friends if they ran more than 1 account.

“Consolidat[ing]” these funds just to 1 account to withdraw is not smart, as a site that caught this chip dumping would happily seize the funds - and keep them for themselves if no other players were affected.

Sites such as ACR simply don’t care about this problem and many others. Anyone who takes a look at the ACR subforum will see many issues, which frustratingly (for the industry as a whole) are dealt with by their reps, some of which see these legit complaints as a joke. They have very limited experience in dealing with bots, collusion & problem gambling and have made some woeful decisions when dealing with these important topics.

I realize at some point this thread must return to the details and investigation, however, with regard to the below I can make a point:

^^^this is what the players have traditionally faced since black friday. Payment processing restrictions and government regulations have given sites impunity in regard to how they treat the players. The models are such that they hold all the power and have no incentive to serve their customers in the way the players would like to be served.

The emerging model changes this, because the chips the players hold double as (effectively) actual shares in the company. Rather than being good for business to rake the hell out of the profitability of the game, the new model incentives a cooperative effort between the site and the players to keep the value of the chips strong.

With the old amaya model, investors and owners are looking to rake the players as much as possible. With the new model everyone wins if the profitability is favorable and more competitive than other sites.

This would be more ideal.

So for example, Josem is the new head of security and he is already communicating with the players on how to police the games. And that is seemingly great.

And Tony G is a backer for the project and you can LITERALLY take you complaint straight to him and since he is a player he will listen. This is what Joey is pulling his hair out over, trying to do something for community he knows he won't be able to get ACR to do.

The new model naturally incentives the sites to serve the players, where as the old model was designed to take as much as possible for them.

Trying to beg the old sites to serve the players is "insanity" doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Conversely the new emerging sites have GREAT game theoretical incentive to make mutually favorable decision. And since they are new they can grow and evolve faster.

The legacy sites are trapped, they cannot grow like this, they wouldn't be able to service their debts, but soon they will HAVE TO.

I made a post about sitting at a PLO8 game with 2 players from Bulgaria. No city listed and the account creation date was the same exact date. I post on Winning and this was Winning TD's response.


First of all chip dumping is applicable in cash games
Second - Send me the names

Im not going into too much detail but from what he says its not all black and white from someone not responding.

Suspecting foul play you dont need to see their hands you would be able to realise if your being cheated against.

I have been speaking alot with Joey and there is no good throwing accusations without anything to back it up with. If you have a suspicion send me a hand ID and i will and always have done check it. Or many hand id's i have no issues checking them.

Two players sitting next to each other, both from Belarus, left the table at the exact same time earlier today. I have seen it happen before too. This is on Pokerstars. Either they are colluding or both bots.

Noose, tbh you seem like the guy lacking an open heart and head. Didn’t even watch the video before all those long tangential posts . The biased “look at me, MY idea is so special but I can’t communicate it effectively in a way for simpletons to understand” place you’re coming from causes you to miss out on obvious perspectives from others, like GTO slang or many 2+2’ers understanding of the technical GTO definition.. Should def do a podcast because based on how you’ve communicated ITT not many people are going to parse through past posts to try & really understand.

Aside from those deficiencies, I don’t think hijacking this thread was the right place to promote your idea. You could’ve made your point in a single post. Overall it IS a separate issue from the current state of gaming integrity at WPN, the site’s shoddy reaction and how that impacts people currently risking their own $. Your idea and site is emerging but that’s not where people are playing and significant $ is changing hands today. This thread is about practically improving the situation and informing people of current realities.

Start your own thread & put a lot of thought into how you’re going to present concepts (because thus far the idea has been absolutely slaughtered by the messenger). If the concept is so genius & effective let Darwinism happen and it will take off on its own.