There is no programing need to "predetermine" any further street when dealing hole cards, the flop or the turn ... In practice, those streets are not needed unless the hand action requires them to be. A hand history of a hand folded on the flop does not reflect any turn card, does it ?

Of course, the hole card data could be compiled and sent to every player during live action, that would create an unnecessary security risk however. THAT would be even worse programming than what was sufficient to enable UB/AP superuser viewing.

I don't know who RG refers to, I am speaking from an historic perspective and my memory as a software provider and poker operator who was around the industry when the UB/AP scandal broke.

Knowledge of live hole cards is necessary only to determine the winner in hands that go to showdown.

(Card distribution is also tracked to test RNGs, but that is not necessarily tied to a particular hand's distribution. It may be, or it may not be. RNG certification from third parties can be obtained. ...I was interested in the reporting Phil described to Joey of such data that will be provided with the new WPN software. I know only what was said in the podcast about such reporting.)

The various players' hole cards, which are all dead once the hand is over, should compiled into hand history "reports" AFTER a hand is over, as a Hole cards report, not as a driver of any further outcome.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

What I described is how poker software CAN and on some sites HAS been programmed to protect against the verry "superuser" risk during live play that UB/AP allowed to happen.

I owned and operated both a software company and a poker network during the early days, and thru the time of the AP/UB scandal, , but hey .... wtf do I know ?

Perhaps you missed the podcast or lack access to the internets ?

I watched the entire stream yesterday. Phil likes to speak in circles and seems vague throughout. I thought I heard him say every user MUST include city and country, but I see many players with no city or Country? Did anyone else hear that or am I wrong? I only play tourneys and have no clue about cash game players. Phil did agree to have cash tables of only US players and the table would be called ACR, but they would change it to US Players Only and they would ask other Countries not to enter and if they do they would be banned. I’m just glad Joey spearheaded this hopefully some good will come out of it.

Someone had to:

Phil, is that you? Is that your 2+2 account? How come it doesn't show WPN_Gzesh? LOL! You and Phil must be twins, because he owns and operates both also, and he knows ****, too!

Phil, if that is you, get your operation audited, then get an audit for that audit team, then another audit team to lock it down. Checks and Balance. First thing you should have done once you bought out the other dude.

the 11 disciples

Wait, either I "don't know anything" or "I actually AM Phil" ?

That's some funny stuff, Don.

Can you do it in a Gilbert Gottfried voice ?

That is discouraging. Is this PLO I'm guessing? I wanna play more PLO but the bot holecard sharing thing has me to paranoid with them having such an advantage.

You know what he said you know what at least 200 times in the podcast.
Made a lot of promises would like to see them happening actually.

you ever think that maybe Phil is under immense pressure from organized crime to allow these bots or super users?

unlikely imo, i think he is under immense pressure to collect that bot rake.

I think this is the answer. And you can see an amazing difference in the number of games running when the bots are not there.

+1

Can you imagine being the bot operator watching that podcast (assuming ACR isn't working together w/ the operators or running the bots themselves)

"Let me get this straight, they have no system in place to detect us, if they get suspicious, they won't do anything because they don't want to take away our livelihood over feeling bad for us. The only way we will get caught is if our bot ****s up for 30 mins against someone streaming. The only people watching out for us are a few players who have taken up the mantle. The 11 security members don't actually listen to those players and do anything about it. We can get in about 200k hands min per account before they might figure it out but even then, they have no system to actually come to the conclusion that we are therefore won't do anything about it. They have NL cash, PLO cash, SNG, MTT, Hyper, (idk the other formats) we can operate in. Let's make this ****ing money"


Phil basically said, they aren't close to being able to detect bots and have no way to learn how to get better at detecting them. Which does make sense considering they've detected no bots themselves. It does provide some piece of the answer to the question why nothing is being done about it.

This is the security task force you rely on to properly spot collusion and detect any super using/software hacking?

That's what's so confounding. I mean, it doesn't take a smart person to look at the existing data and realize there are a bunch of anomalies.

How are they not close to detecting bots? wtf?

I think Papi should let it go now, its clear what Phil's stance is on this, at least to me its very clear. There is no benefit in pushing this further, he will run his company the way he thinks is most beneficial , ofcourse we should keep critisizing ACR with every opportunity if nothing is done, but i think its now up to Phil to decide in whivh direction he wants to go with HIS company.. Only US players tables is a good idea, for US players, i am not one of them, and the only reason i play on ACR is becaue US players, but i dont think that Phil will go for this either for obvious reasons.

I don't plan to keep pursuing as hard right now. I want to give them some time to see what does develop. I get asked about the site all the time on stream or on social media so I'll give my answer of what I think.

I had more faith in recommending them before the podcast but I am very open to changing this opinion if they do show change.

It should have been obvious but I never though they had absolutely no system in place to catch anything. They make so much money!

come on bro, they scream of a garage type operation, they make crazy money but does Phil look like an honourable CEO/company owner type to you, lol i dont think so...lets not go crazy here and except it for what it is, ongoing critisism is pretty much all you/we can do imo.....honesty i was extremely dissapoined with Phil, he dodged everything, integrity of the games is not his priority simple as that.

I think the US players table idea is a bad idea. If I wanted to do that I'd play on a US site, I play on international sites cuz I want a bigger player pool. If this is Phil's only solution then I wanna take his head off and stick it on a spike cuz that's ****ing ******ed.



What's really ****ed up is that I remember when I first started playing ACR 2-3 years ago and Obetwice was grinding the 10plo games. The 2+2 guys outed this player as a bot a while ago and this player is grinding these games right now as I type. It's obvious they are doing nothing real about the bots when they're sitting their everyday getting their grind on, they wanna make a lil noise like they did before so they look good.

They refunded $100,000 for 2c/4c, ie made a token gesture, so the fraud going on with the bots at the higher stakes would bankrupt ACR if they did the necessary multi-million refunding, so that is why they are ignoring the bot problem.

I'm sure they're only back because they spent the weekend cashing out a large chunk of their bankroll, leaving not much.

Bots stampeding back into the PLO streets. Looks like botters were just laying low until Nagy gave them the all clear on Monday. I agree that Nagy basically admitted WPN security has no clue how to detect a bot but they're "his guys" so he trusts them to do a good job anyway.

I’ve played hands with a lot of those bots in both NL and PLO.

How we supposed to get those “refunds” Phil was talking about?

You are supposed to wait and pray that the 11 in their infinite wisdom deem you worthy of anything.

Him saying they're super motivated to stop bots bc each bot can cost them 25k is a joke.
they aren't motivated bc they don't care about the game integrity and they make money from bots.

the beast is also an idiotic promotion that just encourages bots further.