Trambopoline,

Yes I'm sure. But actually I guess it could make sense as it was following the hand they sat out of. I agree with you it would be an odd combination of players.

Deleted some stuff to save space;

Fwiw I played a bit recently on acr and seem to have connection problems as well

So much shady **** these days hard to know what to believe

That is really strange TC.

If I had to come up with 3 regs who would be least likely to know each other, it might be those 3.

Marion is a long time Stars reg who I haven't ever seen play much 50/1. Scout is st1ckman and PL0wned posted ITT + is one of the strangest accounts on the site.



I think that all accusations or concerns that someone might have about the site should be brought up. They might be baseless but I don't think WPN has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to any possibility. Scout plays as low as $5/$10 (don't think it matters much in this context (I think that is still considered high stakes for most?))

Plz post WPN graph & continue to defend mankind

Grunch. Is there any evidence of super users?

TooCuriousso1 ,

I wasn't removed from the table .
I decided it was time to leave , clicked "sit out next BB " , and closed the table myself .


No ,
what i am saying is , i don't recall being disconnected-glitched out at all during that session . 99% sure i wasn't .
I sat out by my own choice . not because of a glitch .

regarding the "all leave table at the same time " ,
It happens all the time , esp in NLH , when action ends , and regs all click sit out next bb
and insta leave .

When you leave a table on WPN you stay on there until the next orbit from what I understand. So all of them leaving at the same time might just be cuz the BB got to them and took them off the table. There are plenty of times that I leave a table and I'm still on there from the lobby and if I double click the table after leaving I'm at the same spot even if there are more open seats.


PLOwned could be a bot but just from exploring his post history he has had the same accusation before on Stars from 2 years ago or so. I'd think a bot owner would have made a new name on 2+2 to not be associated with that history.


If you want to out a bot or super user then you need a database of HHs. This accusation without such HHs is worthless imo. It's just some witch hunt BS. Either bring the data or you're bringing nothing.........



edit: Also the Scout account to me was a known player from back in the day. I could be wrong but that account was familiar from another high stakes account, someone said Stickman on stars but I'm pretty sure Scout327 was a known high stakes account on FTP or UB or something as it's super familiar.

The leaving table glitch seems like the likely reason for this tho imo. If you think these are bots then back it up with stats is all I have to say.

I could also be a space alien .

Just from exploring my post history you can find a thread on high stakes plo forum , where a year and a half ago , a few months after i have opened my account on wpn , i was accused of being a bot .

Just from exploring that thread , you could have learned that those false accusations had me out my stars name , and my WPN account investigated for a week .

just from reading smart people's comments ( in the case that you don't trust wpn's decision to reinstate my account ) you could have learned that looking at hh's data . i am in no way a bot .

So basically the only logical conclusion from that thread is that while some players are suspect of being a bot , I on the other hand , am a what you call , a confirmed non bot .


btw , could you share with us where you have read about my stars account being a bot ? just wondering .

All I want to know is when did they start teaching that you put a space before punctuation marks?

Some guy named Jeff Boski checked ACR computers, staff and security and is sure everything is fine. Also Phill Naggy was real cool to hang out with and answered every question.



Who should we trust, Joey or Jeff?

Too curioso, what you posted only shows 1 player timing out not all 3. It seems likely Marion and plowned had ‘sit out bb’ clicked and scout just happened to disconnect or timeout right before it hit all 3 of their bb

Good to see all the computers working hard.

I'm not sure where you got that anyone was accusing him of being a bot this time. A very reputable HS reg/ex moderator had a question about something he saw, based on his account, it was worth posting. It doesn't mean something is going on, but with the state of WPN I vote post anything that is suspicious. If nothing is going on and it's posted in a polite way like TC did, the accused will come here like PLOowned and that will be that. At the very least it gives a HU to the rest of the player pool to at least be on the look out.

If other hs regs are saying it's Stickman, it's probably stickman, but not everyone would know that so again, posting clarifies a few things. If I recall Scout on Stars was just some bum hunter, regs go to other sites and use whale/bum hunter names all the time to get action/troll.

Edit: Lol, guy from the Cage video is awful. Voice inflection, what is it? Solid advertising for WPN as well, I definitely want to go to Costa Rica now!

LOL.

Dude why is Jeff streaming laying down on his pillow. Reminds me of Daniel Negreanu. For the record people, no one wants to see you stream laying down on your hotel bedroom.

So apparently this is a no.

Obviously most or even all online poker sites are going to have an issue with bot accounts to at least some extent, and the HUD stats in one of Joey's videos showing essentially identical stats between different accounts is pretty compelling evidence that those accounts were bots.

But allegations of super users are an entirely different matter all together, and it seems like Joey has dropped these baseless accusations?

I've only been playing on WPN (ACR) for about half a year, and I see no reason to stop as a form of boycott. They seem to be taking steps to crack down on bots and have been refunding players affected by unfair play, they fixed the late reg issue with MTTs, and there's no evidence of super users that I've seen, so it seems to me that accusing WPN/ACR of being shady as hell is nothing but spreading FUD.

Regarding the Jeff Boski video, he's an ACR site pro who is being paid by them. Of course he's going to have nice things to say about them. But Joey is getting lots of clicks and views for his videos. He got me to watch them since I play on ACR, and as a result I watched a couple episodes of his podcast, so well done for that. But I haven't seen anything thus far suggesting I should quit playing on the site, and I'm not sure why he's ignoring legitimate questions from Bobo Fett, so whatever. FUD gonna FUD.

Well except for Barry, he has earned that privilege.

How do you suppose anyone could come up with real evidence on a network that refuses to incorporate mucked cards at showdown and isn't tracked on a site like RPTR?

I've played here since 2012, I've encountered a few very strange accounts while playing HU cash. Have I thought I was super used or hacked? Yes, on about 5 or so occasions in 6 years did the thought cross my mind. I have no idea if I was or wasn't and am not smart enough/have enough info to prove otherwise. Did I quit playing WPN? No, I didn't, because overall the site has always felt normal and I have all of 1 other options. My plan was just to play and if it felt off I'd never play that player again.

Back when UB had their issues everyone said the exact same thing you did, and this was at a time when much more data was available to actually investigate. Would you rather have people like you won the argument so UB was never investigated or someone posting a warning to be on the look out get people to actually start checking into what was going on?

I'd think as a player, someone as reputable as Joey giving a warning to at least be on the look out would be welcomed. That doesn't mean he is right or wrong, but I'd rather be cautious than fleeced.

If you really start diving deep into the inner workings there is some very, very interesting things to see. One thing I'm very curious about is Vinko Dobrosevic, the creator of the software and the owner of the Poker King skin. Oddly enough, a large % of odd accounts come from that skin.... Play on Poker King, play awful, profit? Sure seems that way...

Fwiw, I am in no way saying there is super users on WPN, but you should definitely be on the look out for such things on ANY site you play. Online poker sites throughout history have been notorious for ****ing over their player base. When you're playing on completely unregulated sites that are blatantly going against many laws and laundering money around the world, anything is possible and you're a fool to think otherwise.

A couple of thoughts about this. First of all, the Cereus accusations weren't ridiculed in the beginning as much as many people seem to think they were. The reason, of course, is because some evidence was provided early on, and a strong, public effort effort was made to gather more. And secondly, a good deal of the evidence that did come early on was based on suspicious win rates - no hole cards needed.

Sure, some good points here. And none of what I said above means it's not possible something could be going on. But until we see *any* evidence beyond anecdotes and feelings, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will remain highly sceptical.

I did forget to mention that Joey's stance on this has also drastically changed over the years too. I remember quite well getting wrecked by the worst player I have ever played that called down, folded at the exact perfect time in spots where it made no sense and venting to Joey at 4 am and him laughing at me about it telling me to quit being a fish rigtard in like 2014. I'm 100% convinced that at the absolute minimum someone put something on my computer, but I was dumb and didn't know any better and just gave it away to my sister and bought a new one that I used only for poker instead of having it checked.

And I agree Bobo, there should be evidence, but when it is very hard to provide because of how the network does thing this kind of stuff is what we're left with. PTR also isn't around and RPTR doesn't (or didn't maybe it does now) track WPN.

I've come to wonder if it's possible this kind of thing may be more widespread than people think. It would certainly help to explain how we seem to get sporadic players on a variety of sites that are certain someone could see their hole cards, rather than a lot of them on one site.

Sure, understood. I *think* much of the winrate info from Cereus was simply people's PT data that they shared with one another, but I could be misremembering. And regardless, of course it would be simpler if they were easily looked up online.

I have some thoughts on this in regards to what I posted about the software creator/pokerking skin owner, but it's just my own crazy opinion. I do find it odd how often security programs flagged WPN skins after updates, never really had that happen so often with any other poker site or even program for that matter. I also think it's quite possible that WPN could have no idea about any potential super users since AFAIK they lease the software from above mentioned guys company IG Soft.






http://www.igsoft.com

Maybe nothing is odd about the software founder owning a skin that has a lot of very interesting players.. (44bars anyone?)

I'm not even telling people not to play WPN at this point, as I have started again, but if you're blindly believing that you can trust these guys to always run an honest game you're crazy. Proceeding with caution should be done by everyone.

Just wanted to post again saying now I no longer think there's much chance anything sketchy was going on.

As trambopoline pointed out the HH shows only scout timing out. At the time I thought I saw "disconnected" on all of them flash briefly, but it seems I'm likely mistaken about that.

I didn't realize scout was stickman. Also as I believe you can make your location change or say w/e on WPN, and multiple skins, I didn't know those accounts were for sure in different countries.

That's as bad an not finishing a sentence, so yeah

maybe Joey realized the type of characters involved and the amount of money involved...and decided it wasn't worth looking over his shoulder the rest of his life?

I'm not really sure what the questions are

Juice man 315