Chicago Joey accuses WPN (ACR) of massive botting and cheating, beware?
Ugh. Seriously, Joey? I haven't talked to anyone at WPN for weeks.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of a claim that you've made, multiple times. Hacking on your end is a definite possibility, and I didn't think a simple question about how secure you feel about your own system would be such an issue for you.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of a claim that you've made, multiple times. Hacking on your end is a definite possibility, and I didn't think a simple question about how secure you feel about your own system would be such an issue for you.
To be fair, my post was public, albeit briefly, and your concern about the possibility about Joey's computer not being secure is valid IMO, so I hope you don't mind if I post what you left in my inbox:
Hi there,
Saw your deleted post in that NVG thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hAmThEkIlLeR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Ugh. Seriously, Joey? I haven't talked to anyone at WPN for weeks.
Well, I guess that all depends on what your definition of "talking" and "weeks" is.
I'll tell you precisely what it means. The last time I had communication in any form with anyone at WPN was precisely 2 weeks ago, on March 7th, and that was just to let the rep know about the posting rules as a non-advertiser, as he had made a couple of mistakes. The only other communication I've had with anyone at WPN in the month of March was a brief exchange on the 3rd, and the topics of Joey and super users never came up. So his whole intimation of my very legitimate question about his computer security being in some way driven by WPN, to be quite frank, pisses me off.
Now, you deleted this post, so you're certainly under no obligation to reply further, and I hope it doesn't bother you that I sent this PM. But seeing your post, I was concerned that Joey's post actually had someone believing that there was something to his insinuations. There isn't.
Have a good day!
Saw your deleted post in that NVG thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hAmThEkIlLeR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Ugh. Seriously, Joey? I haven't talked to anyone at WPN for weeks.
Well, I guess that all depends on what your definition of "talking" and "weeks" is.
I'll tell you precisely what it means. The last time I had communication in any form with anyone at WPN was precisely 2 weeks ago, on March 7th, and that was just to let the rep know about the posting rules as a non-advertiser, as he had made a couple of mistakes. The only other communication I've had with anyone at WPN in the month of March was a brief exchange on the 3rd, and the topics of Joey and super users never came up. So his whole intimation of my very legitimate question about his computer security being in some way driven by WPN, to be quite frank, pisses me off.
Now, you deleted this post, so you're certainly under no obligation to reply further, and I hope it doesn't bother you that I sent this PM. But seeing your post, I was concerned that Joey's post actually had someone believing that there was something to his insinuations. There isn't.
Have a good day!
I responded with the aforementioned quote because I was aware that you had skyped a WPN employee less than two weeks before you made the message (at the time of my posting). There's nothing wrong with that, and my post was really just a likely-inappropriate attempt to be a smartass, thus me deleting it quickly.
But full disclosure: I think perhaps that your history of off-forum communications with that employee led them to discount the rigidity of 2+2's ruling, and this led them to offer promotional deals in a non-sponsored thread, Mason had to correct them. That's just my opinion.
Now there is nothing wrong with having a friendly personal relationship with a WPN employee or affiliate. In fact, Thrash is very nice to me when he really has no cause to because of me not giving him a fair shake in the past. I actually logged on to send him a thank you message when I got yours.
I am making no claim of impropriety on your part, and I think that the WPN employee wasn't acting in bad faith when they mistakenly thought they could still offer promos.
But I think in many cases, you appear to be biased in favor of WPN. Your public post history seems to support this opinion, and your off-forum communications with WPN employees, in my mind, supports that opinion as well.
There is nothing wrong with being biased, we all are to a degree.
I freely admit that I am a fan of Joey's videos. But I take full responsibility for my own opinions. I strongly disagree with him on several core issues. For instance, I don't think that PLO is a "great game" and it accounts for 80 percent of my losses in poker. Also those Choice Center people give me the heebie jeebies, and they remind me of the overly friendly people you see at the beginning of horror movies before the protagonists learn their neighborhood has been infested with aliens, demons, or killer robots.
As someone who still has a very small amount money on WPN, I am slightly concerned about cheating on the site, disorganization all the way up to the top levels of WPN, Nagy's utter incompetence as an executive throughout this fiasco, and the fact that WPN threw away a relationship with the most trusted and constant name in poker for the past three decades because he couldn't be bothered to reply to an email (I am assuming for the sake of argument that he is literate, but I have as much proof of that as I do that
Хорошийробот112, Вылегкиеденьги and Американцыглупы are just some friendly Eastern European regs looking to have a great time on the site ).
It's a very frustrating situation, and the paucity of concern form the upper echelon is aggravating.
Imagine how the general public would react if Mark Zuckerberg didn't bother responding to a massive integrity scandal involving Facebook because he "thought the criticism was unfair."
I think because of the lack of a clear official response from WPN, the fallout from these videos and years of accusations has led to a lot of confusion.
No harm no foul, I don't think that any of the people I deal with are bad actors, yourself included, and I wish everyone well.
Well, I wish Nagy unemployment tbh. But aside from that, no hard feelings.
I think there is merit to your claim, and Joey's claims of superusing are extremely serious and I think he needs to figure out a way to discount the possibility you raised before he puts puts them out there.
If I'm out of line in posting your reply to my inbox, please delete it with my apologies.
I responded with the aforementioned quote because I was aware that you had skyped a WPN employee less than two weeks before you made the message (at the time of my posting). There's nothing wrong with that, and my post was really just a likely-inappropriate attempt to be a smartass, thus me deleting it quickly.
But full disclosure: I think perhaps that your history of off-forum communications with that employee led them to discount the rigidity of 2+2's ruling, and this led them to offer promotional deals in a non-sponsored thread, Mason had to correct them. That's just my opinion.
This isn't an issue of WPN knowing the rules but figuring they have a good relationship with Bobo and thinking I'll let them slide, and then Mason stepping in. I probably hadn't clarified the rules for them around non-advertising rep posting, and when Winning_TD posted something a little outside those rules (he didn't actually post any promos, but said he would be, and let people know they could PM him for RB), I immediately edited his post, communicated the rules to him, and let Mason know, who also replied.
I am making no claim of impropriety on your part, and I think that the WPN employee wasn't acting in bad faith when they mistakenly thought they could still offer promos.
But I think in many cases, you appear to be biased in favor of WPN. Your public post history seems to support this opinion,
But I think in many cases, you appear to be biased in favor of WPN. Your public post history seems to support this opinion,
I try, for the most part, to not make judgements on poker rooms one way or the other, whether they advertise with us or not. (Well, with the exception of Cereus, who I've always trashed mercilessly - but I stand by that.) However, I will often come into a thread and take issue with a post that I don't think makes sense, needs further clarification, etc. For example, when people make claims that their evidence doesn't support, or are premature, etc. And while I'll do that whether a post is pro- or anti- a given site, and it doesn't matter whether the site advertises with us or not, I will readily admit that it's likely much more often anti-site posts, and probably more often about advertisers. I believe that's mostly due to the nature of posts - people more often post negative feedback, and most of the biggest sites advertise with us and we'll see more posts about them - but if that comes across as a bias, I at least understand where you're coming from.
Sure. I can accept that I am, and likely more than I like to think, no matter how hard I try not to be. Hopefully, though, people are able to look past biases, or perceived biases, and debate the points made instead. Unfortunately, a lot of the time people get too hung up on what they think is a bias and don't take the time to read and understand points being made.
I freely admit that I am a fan of Joey's videos. But I take full responsibility for my own opinions. I strongly disagree with him on several core issues. For instance, I don't think that PLO is a "great game" and it accounts for 80 percent of my losses in poker. Also those Choice Center people give me the heebie jeebies, and they remind me of the overly friendly people you see at the beginning of horror movies before the protagonists learn their neighborhood has been infested with aliens, demons, or killer robots.
As someone who still has a very small amount money on WPN, I am slightly concerned about cheating on the site, disorganization all the way up to the top levels of WPN, Nagy's utter incompetence as an executive throughout this fiasco, and the fact that WPN threw away a relationship with the most trusted and constant name in poker for the past three decades because he couldn't be bothered to reply to an email (I am assuming for the sake of argument that he is literate, but I have as much proof of that as I do that
Хорошийробот112, Вылегкиеденьги and Американцыглупы are just some friendly Eastern European regs looking to have a great time on the site ).
It's a very frustrating situation, and the paucity of concern form the upper echelon is aggravating.
Imagine how the general public would react if Mark Zuckerberg didn't bother responding to a massive integrity scandal involving Facebook because he "thought the criticism was unfair."
I think because of the lack of a clear official response from WPN, the fallout from these videos and years of accusations has led to a lot of confusion.
As someone who still has a very small amount money on WPN, I am slightly concerned about cheating on the site, disorganization all the way up to the top levels of WPN, Nagy's utter incompetence as an executive throughout this fiasco, and the fact that WPN threw away a relationship with the most trusted and constant name in poker for the past three decades because he couldn't be bothered to reply to an email (I am assuming for the sake of argument that he is literate, but I have as much proof of that as I do that
Хорошийробот112, Вылегкиеденьги and Американцыглупы are just some friendly Eastern European regs looking to have a great time on the site ).
It's a very frustrating situation, and the paucity of concern form the upper echelon is aggravating.
Imagine how the general public would react if Mark Zuckerberg didn't bother responding to a massive integrity scandal involving Facebook because he "thought the criticism was unfair."
I think because of the lack of a clear official response from WPN, the fallout from these videos and years of accusations has led to a lot of confusion.
Well, I hadn't intended for all of it to be public, but I also try not to send anything privately that would cause me a problem if it was posted publicly, so I have no problem standing by anything I said in that PM.
I don't mean to further derail, so this question is merely hypothetical: why share his PM to you like that, though???
A few reasons.
Some people might have seen my comment before I deleted it, and if you are unaware of my tendency to be a smartass, could have well been taken to mean that I was implying that Bobo had some kind of under the table relationship with WPN, which I didn't think at all.
I thought that Bobo had a very reasonable explanation of his relationship with WPN, and his message indicated to me that he sincerely thinks that Joey's personal security could be compromised, and that could explain the superuser allegations.
It also led to an honest discussion about Bobo's relationship and communication history with WPN, which I think was productive.
I also think that public discussion of things is better than private ones on matters that affect the community like this. I think that Bobo's previous dealings with WPN makes him exceedingly charitable towards them, he feels frustrated that people are discounting a valid point that he's trying to make.
I think the community benefits from this sort of discussion more than the times when Bobo questions my reading comprehension and I accuse him of not knowing what a dictionary is .
Nobody asked me, but the general policy is that PM's should not be made public unless the sender agrees to it.
Of course, the flip side is that since PM's might be made public without the sender's permission, nothing should be sent via PM that would be extremely embarrassing (or worse) to the sender if the PM were to be made public.
Of course, the flip side is that since PM's might be made public without the sender's permission, nothing should be sent via PM that would be extremely embarrassing (or worse) to the sender if the PM were to be made public.
I sure hope he's just as certain his computer is secure, and has done a lot more than run a virus and malware scan to do so.
what measures could one take to be extra certain?
1. Do not turn back on that laptop, especially if it can be connected to the internet
2. Buy a new laptop, with your standard stakes this will cost you 2-3BB and could will save you a ton of money in the future
3. Bring your laptop to a trusted security expert (preferably an (ex)hacker that you personally know or that is vouched for by a ton of people you know). Get him to find out exactly what has been installed/done to your machine and if there any unusual IP addresses etc that it is "talking to"
4. Change your passwords to your poker sites / email address etc from a different computer (preferably the one that you buy). Use a different password for each account, it can be a pain, but is needed
5. Get security tokens for all sites that offer them if you don’t already
2. Buy a new laptop, with your standard stakes this will cost you 2-3BB and could will save you a ton of money in the future
3. Bring your laptop to a trusted security expert (preferably an (ex)hacker that you personally know or that is vouched for by a ton of people you know). Get him to find out exactly what has been installed/done to your machine and if there any unusual IP addresses etc that it is "talking to"
4. Change your passwords to your poker sites / email address etc from a different computer (preferably the one that you buy). Use a different password for each account, it can be a pain, but is needed
5. Get security tokens for all sites that offer them if you don’t already
The best way of safeguarding your living is to have a computer and internet connection dedicated for POKER USE ONLY. Anyone playing for a living, especially $3/$6+, should have this. Nothing else should be installed on that machine other than your poker sites, your HEM/PT and table ninja/AHK. There is no need to have anything none poker related on it. The dedicated internet connection should only ever be used to have that computer connected to it - no phones, no personal computers, no friends who come around to the house, etc.
Skype/AIM/IMing/Facebooking/webbrowsing etc should all be used from your personal computer and another internet connection.
These people who are planting stuff on your computers are doing it as they know your IP address from programs such as Skype, AIM and also from having phishing sites which they will direct you to. Also poker players will allow people into their hotel rooms that they don’t really know, where they have their own poker laptops laid out in full view. This happens at poker events around the world. Letting people into your house when you are not there who can wander about is an issue too.
Unfortunately poker players are notoriously lazy and the vast majority of them will not be bothered to spend 1 BI (or even <1 BB in the case of a nosebleed player) on a dedicated computer. A 2nd internet connection for most people will cost a few BB per month. Players will not be bothered about doing the above as it “wont happen to me” and then be amazed when it does happen to them. Some players wont even bother doing it after being hit for 6 figures, when heavily advised to do it as they are clearly a target.
While the above will not 100% rule out someone infecting your machines, it will heavily reduce the possibility of you getting compromised in this manner
Cliffs:-
Buy a dedicated computer, only install sites & HEM/PT & TN
Get a dedicated internet connection for that computer only
Lock your computer when not in use if people in house
Don’t allow people to use/ go near your laptop when at a live poker tourny
Skype/AIM/IMing/Facebooking/webbrowsing etc should all be used from your personal computer and another internet connection.
These people who are planting stuff on your computers are doing it as they know your IP address from programs such as Skype, AIM and also from having phishing sites which they will direct you to. Also poker players will allow people into their hotel rooms that they don’t really know, where they have their own poker laptops laid out in full view. This happens at poker events around the world. Letting people into your house when you are not there who can wander about is an issue too.
Unfortunately poker players are notoriously lazy and the vast majority of them will not be bothered to spend 1 BI (or even <1 BB in the case of a nosebleed player) on a dedicated computer. A 2nd internet connection for most people will cost a few BB per month. Players will not be bothered about doing the above as it “wont happen to me” and then be amazed when it does happen to them. Some players wont even bother doing it after being hit for 6 figures, when heavily advised to do it as they are clearly a target.
While the above will not 100% rule out someone infecting your machines, it will heavily reduce the possibility of you getting compromised in this manner
Cliffs:-
Buy a dedicated computer, only install sites & HEM/PT & TN
Get a dedicated internet connection for that computer only
Lock your computer when not in use if people in house
Don’t allow people to use/ go near your laptop when at a live poker tourny
I think as long as you go to these low end bot sites and they list WPN as the number one site to play on with the least amount of risk to get caught on then the writing is on the wall. As what others have said before if these little ****ty 100$ bots that beat the 1-2 cent NL games are suggesting the use of WPN over all other networks then wth is going on with the high end bots?
Good to see Chlore back at the tables! /s
Joey there is a problem with long time 2+2er and mid-high stakes player trambopoline getting his account frozen with a large sum of money.
The guy has had a rep here a lot longer then many high stakes players and unless anyone has a reason to doubt him this isn't right as it shows anyone could be subject to such BS. WPN needs to make this right unless they give a real reason why this is going on.
My account just got randomly suspended. Support is saying its a standard security procedure. Despite never doing anything remotely wrong I am extremely worried as I have a large balance on the site. Has anyone else gotten this lately? Nice to see they're stepping up security, not nice to see they're singling out the wrong players then explaining nothing about the investigation when mid 6 figures is at stake. Go find some ****ing bots or colluders or anyone that is doing anything wrong (NOT me)
I think as long as you go to these low end bot sites and they list WPN as the number one site to play on with the least amount of risk to get caught on then the writing is on the wall. As what others have said before if these little ****ty 100$ bots that beat the 1-2 cent NL games are suggesting the use of WPN over all other networks then wth is going on with the high end bots?
It might not be in collusion w WPN that these companies exist, but in one way or another they seem to have concluded that WPN is one of the easiest sites to exploit (along w BetOnline/Chico). They probably focus on US-facing sites because they aren't regulated and have much less incentive to stop botting if they aren't in fear of losing a legitimate gaming license (like a UK license).
It's pretty demoralizing to see. They brag about being downloaded over 1/2mm times, offer 5 pre-loaded profiles, and they offer SUPPORT!
That's why internet poker is dying faster than it otherwise would on the high rb, grinder-friendly sites. This wouldn't be happening as frequently if sites took away the incentive to do this, either by stepping up game security or taking away the high rb, ability to use any 3rd party software money can buy, rake races, etc. That's my view but if there are other solutions to stopping this, I'm sure people much smarter than me will figure it out.
Wait, we're not seriously complaining that WPN's security is too tight?
Complaining about temporary freezes for investigation (if there are actual bans and seized funds then it's a different story) on innocent accounts is like saying only the terrorists should go through airport security.
They fixed the problem tho.
Bill cosby probably lived before they invented the automobile and yet his rep didn't mean jack.
In other words, I don't see much wrong with a temporary freeze just for investigation if they have a reason to suspect anything.
In other words, I don't see much wrong with a temporary freeze just for investigation if they have a reason to suspect anything.
A capcha was admittedly missed and set off the suspension. If it didn't, people would complain that the capcha doesn't do ****. If the missed capcha triggered a temporary suspension on a known player, that is a good thing, much like the account being quickly reinstated due to an innocent/accidental oversight. It's supposed to work that way. The missed capcha should trigger an investigation and temporary freeze if the account.
Why should Durrr, or anyone, get special consideration? Is there not a list of pros that have been proven to be grimy? They operated in a sleazy way prior to being caught and would continue if they weren't. It's like when WPN temporarily suspended Perkins' account. His name/reputation should not preclude him from abiding by the rules.
Why not? Advertising banners all over the forum allowed WPN to do it for years.
Unless, you're suggesting Bobo's actions and sentiments are genuinely heartfelt and lack any relation to the advertisement money that's been coming in for the past 7 years. Which, I find extremely hard to believe.
Bot operators showed up to the forum talking about how much they made on WPN while Bobo and company took advertisement money from them. I'm still trying to figure out why the mods on 2 + 2 are being praised for finally cancelling WPN's ability to advertise on this site.
Joey's name and reputation is the only reason something is being done and that's scary. If you're going to thank anyone thank him. These mods are desperately trying to save their credibility, at this point. They could care less about anything else. Their actions over the past few years prove this fact.
Unless, you're suggesting Bobo's actions and sentiments are genuinely heartfelt and lack any relation to the advertisement money that's been coming in for the past 7 years. Which, I find extremely hard to believe.
Bot operators showed up to the forum talking about how much they made on WPN while Bobo and company took advertisement money from them. I'm still trying to figure out why the mods on 2 + 2 are being praised for finally cancelling WPN's ability to advertise on this site.
Joey's name and reputation is the only reason something is being done and that's scary. If you're going to thank anyone thank him. These mods are desperately trying to save their credibility, at this point. They could care less about anything else. Their actions over the past few years prove this fact.
Why not? Advertising banners all over the forum allowed WPN to do it for years.
Unless, you're suggesting Bobo's actions and sentiments are genuinely heartfelt and lack any relation to the advertisement money that's been coming in for the past 7 years. Which, I find extremely hard to believe.
Bot operators showed up to the forum talking about how much they made on WPN while Bobo and company took advertisement money from them. I'm still trying to figure out why the mods on 2 + 2 are being praised for finally cancelling WPN's ability to advertise on this site.
Joey's name and reputation is the only reason something is being done and that's scary. If you're going to thank anyone thank him. These mods are desperately trying to save their credibility, at this point. They could care less about anything else. Their actions over the past few years prove this fact.
Unless, you're suggesting Bobo's actions and sentiments are genuinely heartfelt and lack any relation to the advertisement money that's been coming in for the past 7 years. Which, I find extremely hard to believe.
Bot operators showed up to the forum talking about how much they made on WPN while Bobo and company took advertisement money from them. I'm still trying to figure out why the mods on 2 + 2 are being praised for finally cancelling WPN's ability to advertise on this site.
Joey's name and reputation is the only reason something is being done and that's scary. If you're going to thank anyone thank him. These mods are desperately trying to save their credibility, at this point. They could care less about anything else. Their actions over the past few years prove this fact.
Lol, AllJackedUp hasn't been a 'youngin' in 35 years.
A capcha was admittedly missed and set off the suspension. If it didn't, people would complain that the capcha doesn't do ****. If the missed capcha triggered a temporary suspension on a known player, that is a good thing, much like the account being quickly reinstated due to an innocent/accidental oversight. It's supposed to work that way. The missed capcha should trigger an investigation and temporary freeze if the account.
Why should Durrr, or anyone, get special consideration? Is there not a list of pros that have been proven to be grimy? They operated in a sleazy way prior to being caught and would continue if they weren't. It's like when WPN temporarily suspended Perkins' account. His name/reputation should not preclude him from abiding by the rules.
A capcha was admittedly missed and set off the suspension. If it didn't, people would complain that the capcha doesn't do ****. If the missed capcha triggered a temporary suspension on a known player, that is a good thing, much like the account being quickly reinstated due to an innocent/accidental oversight. It's supposed to work that way. The missed capcha should trigger an investigation and temporary freeze if the account.
Why should Durrr, or anyone, get special consideration? Is there not a list of pros that have been proven to be grimy? They operated in a sleazy way prior to being caught and would continue if they weren't. It's like when WPN temporarily suspended Perkins' account. His name/reputation should not preclude him from abiding by the rules.
Regardless, I think you might want to not keep a large amount of money on ACR. Just saying.
I allegedly missed a captcha, which I find very unlikely as it encompasses a large portion of the screen. But either way I’ve solved dozens of captchas over the last year or so. So even if I missed one there should be some sort of leniancy would you agree? To be honest they could have told me it was regarding a missed captcha and I would have felt more comfortable knowing why I was being investigated. I defnitely agree that just because I’ve been around for a while doesn’t mean I should be immediately cleared of any wrongdoing. It was more of the fact that I’m on a large heater and wpn randomly freezes my account and tells me no details whatsoever, not even a damn email to tell me my account has been frozen. When there’s large money at stake it’s a pretty harsh thing to do to someone and in the back of my head there’s always the minute chance they’re gonna make some bull**** up and confiscate my money
Not trying to disrespect your position, but you have to look at it from the outside a bit. If WPN hindered you account in any way.....they would be in the wrong. If they suspended and account you thought was suspect, would you appreciate it?
The inconvenience sucks, but the last of could cost much much more..
Ya you have a point a dewd. Them not even sending an email tho...... WPN is just not on point when it comes to much it seems. It's kinda sad that one of the main choices for US players doesn't have anything resembling decent support. Over and over again their support comes up as pathetic at best.
I'm sure Trambopoline was having an anxiety attack over this, I'd be losing my **** if I had $1k in an account and they froze it like that lol. Nice to see it all worked out tho.
I'm sure Trambopoline was having an anxiety attack over this, I'd be losing my **** if I had $1k in an account and they froze it like that lol. Nice to see it all worked out tho.
ive asked this semi-rhetorical question numerous times. I hope some intelligent people will really consider this....
Why would anyone attempt to run a US facing poker site post-BF unless they are making money at a rate that far exceeds what they would do in the ROW market?!?
i mean the risk of DOJ/Feds is real...why would anyone do this(and do it publicly) without a SERIOUS financial gain in sight? i highly doubt anyone takes this risk that is interested in running a legitimate site.
Why are all the other poker sites floundering and struggling...having to pinch pennies everywhere, reduce edges for winners etc. Meanwhile WPN is just chilling running milly GTDs, giving old school rakeback deals, and paying out overlay like its Christmas when NOBODY else in the market is doing it?
how are they immune to so many of these issues plaguing the business/economic side of poker sites in the post BF era?
Why would anyone attempt to run a US facing poker site post-BF unless they are making money at a rate that far exceeds what they would do in the ROW market?!?
i mean the risk of DOJ/Feds is real...why would anyone do this(and do it publicly) without a SERIOUS financial gain in sight? i highly doubt anyone takes this risk that is interested in running a legitimate site.
Why are all the other poker sites floundering and struggling...having to pinch pennies everywhere, reduce edges for winners etc. Meanwhile WPN is just chilling running milly GTDs, giving old school rakeback deals, and paying out overlay like its Christmas when NOBODY else in the market is doing it?
how are they immune to so many of these issues plaguing the business/economic side of poker sites in the post BF era?
ive asked this semi-rhetorical question numerous times. I hope some intelligent people will really consider this....
Why would anyone attempt to run a US facing poker site post-BF unless they are making money at a rate that far exceeds what they would do in the ROW market?!?
i mean the risk of DOJ/Feds is real...why would anyone do this(and do it publicly) without a SERIOUS financial gain in sight? i highly doubt anyone takes this risk that is interested in running a legitimate site.
Why are all the other poker sites floundering and struggling...having to pinch pennies everywhere, reduce edges for winners etc. Meanwhile WPN is just chilling running milly GTDs, giving old school rakeback deals, and paying out overlay like its Christmas when NOBODY else in the market is doing it?
how are they immune to so many of these issues plaguing the business/economic side of poker sites in the post BF era?
Why would anyone attempt to run a US facing poker site post-BF unless they are making money at a rate that far exceeds what they would do in the ROW market?!?
i mean the risk of DOJ/Feds is real...why would anyone do this(and do it publicly) without a SERIOUS financial gain in sight? i highly doubt anyone takes this risk that is interested in running a legitimate site.
Why are all the other poker sites floundering and struggling...having to pinch pennies everywhere, reduce edges for winners etc. Meanwhile WPN is just chilling running milly GTDs, giving old school rakeback deals, and paying out overlay like its Christmas when NOBODY else in the market is doing it?
how are they immune to so many of these issues plaguing the business/economic side of poker sites in the post BF era?
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