This thread didn't create that problem IMO

All or at least most of these issues have been discussed by long time regulars for years who were all brushed off or moderated in the WPN sub forum.

2 weeks after Joey of sorts gathered this info, and like he self admitted it wasn't that hard to do, action was taken.

So really after years of inaction of moderators I can see why people think that.

I am not trying to throw mud, I would like to point out I sense a tone of annoyance based from a few passive aggressive statements being qualified with a no harm or bad words language after a statement.

I understand this entire situation has been a bit crazy, I also think when you have unregulated sites doing/allowing crazy things the reaction is justified to some extent.

I agree lets tone down the crazy a bit and get to a solution and IMO that is educating the poker population to at least beware of this network more so then before as they are unregulated

I appreciate the efforts of all involved to further this discussion and expose what has been going on for years

Stop posting, take a breath, and think about it. You screwed up badly. Don't defend it - learn from it.

this hh is actually proof of no collusion.

its simple, if 2 players are colluding, then why when folded to them in the blinds would they see a flop? the simple answer is they would not since they would then have to pay rake.

also just because the guy with the set of 5's checks three streets out of position that is not at all indicative of collusion. its a failed trap is all. ive played hands the same way against opponents im not colluding with....

you aren't losing at poker cause you are being cheated.....

I think the reason people are looking to Joey for help is that he actually seems to care about this issue much more than WPN itself. It's not his job to ensure fair play on any site, but the fact that he cares about troubling information about botting/cheating/collusion is the reason that people are doing like this.


WPN cares so little about these allegations, they blew off a business relationship with 2+2 rather than address it. Had WPN simply bothered enough to respond positively to the 2+2 email, their forum would still be open, and yet they couldn't even gaf enough to do that.


Of course players are going to look to Joey, because he has influence and genuinely appears to care about poker players. WPN has done just the opposite.

I am not an expert moderator, but I think if you've narrowed the potential solution down this point, you can consider the problem solved.

I keep seeing people throw around that the problem with this site and others is that they are "unregulated". That is NOT the problem. The problem is that they are technically illegal. Governments do not have the right to regulate ANY industry in a moral society.

The answer to the problem is to completely LEGALIZE online casinos as governments have no right to make them illegal any more than they have the right to make anything illegal that doesn't violate the rights of others.

The thing all online poker players should be pushing for is a completely legal and unregulated game space. Proper moral governments exist to protect rights not violate them by making perfectly moral things illegal; nor do they have any moral right to "regulate" them or any other industries.

+1

If this is addressed to me, then no, there's really no annoyance. Just making some observations that I thought needed mentioning in an effort to give some direction or guidance to those who have concerns but aren't sure what to do with them - for whatever my observations are worth.

Sure, I understand the reason people go to Joey, and I'm not even suggesting they shouldn't. I just want them to know he isn't the only solution available, and not necessarily the best for every scenario.

I think we're all after the same thing here; I just believe that some of the methodology could use a little tweaking.

I thought the WPN subforum was getting closed as of yesterday?

Right, and it was. And still is.

If I were to speculate I'd say that WPN has house bots or are in agreement with people whom use bots that the network allows.

I also speculate that wpn has superusers which they utilize to cover overlays. It's not a 50k overlay if your player cashes for 60k etc.

Thank you to 2 plus 2 for dumping this site. I get that sponsorship is down so it makes it tougher so good on you for doing so.

fair enough TY

sadly I tend to be leaning to this conclusion myself.

Add up the overlays even just yesterday, how can any business sustain that. In the history of online poker those must be the biggest daily overlays. I have played for many years and never have seen those type of overlays.

Not even in pokers boom were they that significant, I guess one can argue the population was huge and thus that is why no overlays, but then couldn't one argue since the population shrunk why would a business model take that direction as the companies ROI must be fairly low. We all debate if online poker is dead and this network says naw we just shred 200k a day no problem.

In regards to the "house bots" I have mentioned this before.
when the site used to "go down" direct before none of the HUSNG bots would ever be sitting. It would be strange that every lag time they were nowhere to be found, I used to almost use it as an indicator of when the site would have lag issues, then instantly when the site would go back up the entire lobby would be full with the HUSNG bots I have mentioned before.

This happened over and over and I believe I even mentioned it a thread directed at the WPN rep it was just ignored by them.

Anyways ain't never gonna get that time back,never gonna get a refund from being cheated from unfair gameplay.

I will continue to view this discussion just cuz I am curious to where this trainwreck lands, I just don't have the passion to see justice as I did before simply because that is never going to happen.

I agree with the unregulated vs illegal term, while it is illegal in America true, it is also unregulated as well in the country it is legal. discussing what is best unregulated in a freemarket or regulated is a different conversation IMO

Wild, reckless, baseless and irresponsible speculation. They are owned by one of if not the biggest sportsbook in the world, the poker side financially is but a drop in the bucket.

Welcome to NVG.

I didn't know Ladbrokes bought it.


10/10 shilling though.

I misspoke there a bit but it does show what kind of money is available in the sportsbetting world.

I liked this from ACR in the comment section of the video...


Americas Cardroom .com
1 year ago
and we are happy to say that in a few weeks we will have something that no one else in the industry is doing to prevent bots 

haha IDC who owns that steamy pile

If they are the biggest sports book in the world they certainly have not intergrated there best sportsbook platform onto this network and if they have wow I would not call that the best, I would ask you to define "biggest" in what customers, profits, platform, tech what?

this networks sportsbook is miles behind the competition on every level


so while you think you made some shocking revelation about others comments you wildly and recklessly speculated yoself

Except....

WPN is owned by BetCRIS. BetCRIS is owned by Townview Trading. Townview Trading was put together by Mossack Fonseca. They are the law firm that was hacked and the Panama Papers came from it. It was shown that they represent the super wealthy people and set up off shore accounts on their behalf, many in the Seychelles Islands. They don't take little $50 million dollar accounts. The money they manage gets invested and spread around in various interests.

Another way of putting it is....the money lost in the overlays are a drop in the bucket and they are backed by some of the very wealthiest families on the planet, or what Thrash said.

ok I can agree to some extent

so I guess is why do these people want to invest in this market?

convincing even bababillionaires to lose money at that rate for that long in that market seems a stretch even under the scenario you present

Phil must have to convince them right? or is he just there I would think after this long some other relationship must be lurking cuz he can't even convince degens that they are legit how can I believe he is convincing super 1percentas to shred money

riddle me that

Off topic, but real quick....they out their money all over. Gambling off-shore is a cash machine, remember it is an international client base, potentially millions of clients. The clients of Mossack-Fonseca are not simple millionaires. You can search Panama Papers and see the level if money involved. Townview probably has $100 billion+ in liquidity. A couple million bucks lost is not even noticed. Fonseca is consulate to Saudi Arabia, how much money is there?? Mossack has quite the background, too.

Some of the families that they deal with dwarf the too of the Forbes wealthies in the world list. You probably feel the same pain losing $20 as they do a million.

Yet a lot of rich people didn't get there by being honest.

Rich people didn't get there by being grossly negligent either.

The fact that there hasn't been some kind of damage control over this begs credulity.


My best guess is there is something going on that's a lot pressing than addressing the poker world about cheating.

But no, really... online poker is totally legit

... no, seriously...totally legit

You would have to make sure you weren't in front of the camera when using your pee jar.