What you don't see is that they do it all day, every day, when the last minute lines up right. The 'collusion' is that they join simultaneously and all stall with the intention of slowing the table down to a crawl with the purpose of cashing. Between timing down and disconnects, the table does not complete an orbit in a full 12 minute blind level. It's very +EV for them. It only happens when they can create a new table. The Early Special usually pays 81. They crash at the last minute, stall and they almost always make the cash with starting in 105-120 place. 10K starting stacks that stall outlast 15-16K stacks spread out on tables that play normal pace.

Thanks for your input a dewd. It's funny I was ready to start grinding more tourneys on WPN other then the 1 at a time I usually do and I always hated the late registration thing making tourneys last an 8 hour shift like a job. You can make a lot of money grinding them here and there.... this is just sad and upsets me that I can't play them on principle now. Tourneys have gotten more and more fun for me to lately too.


I guess I can play poker at the local casino but live is just so slow..... Sad day in MERica. Maybe I'll take up Knitting lol.

I just spent a couple minutes making models with icmizer and, yeah, if I create a model with a lot of chips in play (I assumed there was over one rebuy on average per player) then an entry near the bubble for a starting stack size has less ICM value than the entry fee.

All this, plus the fact that sharkscope shows that they all play together all the time, some of the accounts show up the day that others are banned, some of these accounts played 5000 freerolls before joining this little party. It's just too much to be reasonably thought of as coincidence, the cumulative case is damning.

WPN should just make a separate skin and force all the Eastern Euro and other high risk botting countries to play on that skin only. Then they can keep their bot rake and site numbers higher and the legit Euros can still play poker. Meanwhile it'll make the games better for the countries who actually deposit money onto the site rather then just take money off it.

The other option would be just ban those countries completely. Thing is then you take out some of the legit Euro players. This way they can keep on the grind.

The botters will just buy up verified US accounts and be back in business within a day or two.

Which makes me wonder, what is my account worth?

(but frankly, Joey was showing accounts coming active out of the freeroll botter ranks, which makes it appear as though these guys already have a pretty big supply of accounts to access)

Yeah but they'll have to use VPN's to access the site from those countries and if they increase security and ban accounts who're bot like with security checks etc it would lower the % of bots and cheaters dramatically. Pretty sure websites can tell when someone uses a VPN to access it in most cases.

Their never going to completely eliminate the cheating but its going to make it more difficult by a ton.

I think all it takes is to change the table layout frequently -- it screws up the bot's screen scraping.

In fact, if sites could even make a client that changes all the info on the table every couple of hands (the position of stack size info, pot size info, bet info, where to click the buttons to make bets and calls) then it may make botting impossible. There must be more to it than I think, because I can't imagine why Stars or 888 hasn't done this already. (well, unless the rake they get is just too good to completely say no).

I thought all the sites stopped putting action and hands in dealer chat? I could be wrong, I don't really pay attention (I'm on global right now, and the dealer chat box on global looks useless to me).

I'm pretty sure that dealer chat shows all actions on WPN but I've had it on summary and chat only for a while now. From memory tho chat will show all cards being dealt and all betting action. I just know there is lots of hand by hand detail in the chat if you don't censor it.




edit: just screen capped this, I assume a bot could read this? I know nothing of this chat stuff but this is the expanded view of what you can see on the tables' chat box.

Plus if you ban the BOTs and a new account pops up playing that same style for 8+ hours a day it will be pretty obvious.

Or just make all Eastern Europeans play on webcam. There aren't any recreations from those countries on WPN (shocking and I wonder why). If you are legit from those countries you should want the games cleaned up anyway.

+1

We need more "common sense solutions" to the bot problem. The culprits are obvious.

I dont really understand

People talk about a fair environment. Everyone that play highstakes can very very easily get a programmer to get them write a program that just spew out perfect pio-solver solutions in every spot that will be undetecatable.

"Ah but the sites just checks the processes on your computer"

I can get a webcam up behind my computer that will never be detected that will just scan my screen and run it through OpenCV and detect every table and spit up solutions somewhere else. No site will ever detect this. Stars will never detect this, even if I play after their required "60 minute video while you play".
If you think the games are fair these days, you are just wrong. I can get most common spots in 6max NLHE ran in a few weeks on my ****ty AMD threadripper homecomputer. You tell me what a group with a lot of money can get solved, and how they can run solutions that are specific to different opponents.

Im assuming nobody watched this lol.

Phil nagy had his face super imposed onto david lettermen so he can give his 10 reasons why trump couldnt run ACR.

Did the WPN rep ever make their way back in here was that just a fluffy one time appearance to pretend something was getting done?

I watched it and waited for #6, I just didn't wanna hurt your feelings cuz it was meh. I watch nonstop comedian podcasts tho so if you're not a pro or a straight up degen like me it's hard to break out my laughter.

True.. Need humans to hunt and good ID verification.. Wont be able to stop it at first but will cut it down over time.

I mean its not something i made. WPN uploaded that to their youtube page. I didnt find it all that funny either but what stood out to me is what he said at #6 "we wont do the most for our customers" something along those lines.

Ya I'm a dummie, I shouldn't be even posting honestly since I've been drinking. I get myself in trouble that way lol.

I enjoy your posts tho bro as we post a lot in the same areas on many of the same topics.

Haha no worries

You still can play on bodog/bovada,pokerstars.it and they are avaliable to super limited amount of countries and both pokerstars.it and bodog did fight the vpning very actively.

The difference now is that there are PC farms where you pay like 500-700$/month where you get access to PC with custom remote control access.

Thats basically the same way how many US regs kept playing on pokerstars.com after Black Friday when it was still worth it.

Custom server+remote control and you are still good to go no problem.

In the earlier part of this thread there was some discussion of online chess. this popped up this morning...made I laugh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43053626

I guess the moral might be...

Wherever and however you put your monies online, there is always a risk of them disappearing.

The greyer the platform, the shadier the regime, the shonkier the company, the greater the risk.

Caveat Emptor

Phil Nagy will try to bury this video with all his alt accounts... BUT HE WILL FALL TO CHASE THUNDER IN A STEEL CAGE MATCH. LIVE FROM COSTA RICA

That Chae Thunder is the nuts in this thread. Very well done sir.

hahahhahahhahahh