The fact that you can't see it is both amazing, and yet not at all surprising.

Just because something is related to a topic doesn't mean that it's on topic. See the title of the thread? That's what this thread is about. You've completely derailed it to a somewhat related, yet very different, topic. Something you acknowledged yourself:

Yes, it does. Now. You're done in this thread.

Seriously.

If anyone else wants to continue the discussion about decentralized poker, "Ideal Poker", or anything related, this is the thread for it:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...uture-1636827/

WPN has NO SUPERUSERS.

.................................................

Black Friday is now irrelevant.

Online poker will die by its own hand.

RIP

Maybe they should have just cashed out before losing that 10k after

New video on an exploit in the registration system on WPN that has resulted in accounts being banned and some of the highest in the money cash rates that exist in online poker today. I found 13 accounts allegedly banned for this, 2 confirmed by ACR, and up to 30 accounts total active with these same winrates/play patterns.

I also witness 4-5 accounts exploit this last night during late reg before closing. These accounts patterns over an extended period of time are super strange and I honestly have no idea how many accounts are involved in doing this.

This loophole has been known by ACR for quite some time and nothing had been done to fix it. These accounts were also detected by the help of a rogue man who wouldn't take no for an answer from ACR security. Otherwise, they would have gone undetected, as the current active accounts are able to do.

For WPN to look deeper in to. We are counting on you guys.

Who are ALL THESE ACCOUNTS using the late reg glitch in conjunction with over time? Some have played over a thousand games!

Who are these accounts moving money to and how??

What are there play styles during play and are they possibly bots/colluding/card sharing???

Why is this loophole been allowed to exist for so long??

Can a parameter be creating to go back and check other accounts that have taken advantage of this in higher buy-in events??

HOW THE HELL HAVE PEOPLE BEEN BANNED FOR USING THIS YET IT STILL EXISTS??
How are the players achieving such absurd win rates???

If these type of activities can't be detected and fixed, how can you have any confidence that botting, collusion & super using are being detected???

What is the pattern being used to bring the accounts out of hibernation??

Why did some accounts play so many freerolls prior to being activated??


These accounts need to be studied & broken down every possible way to see who they are linked to in any way. This appears to be an epidemic in the tournament world. Luckily there are enough Americans still on the site playing tournaments to make it a profitable experience for enough people.

That's a pretty messed up MTT exploit, the only good thing : / being maybe that could be an easy fix, or well I guess should have been

What I took from the video was that those people probably botted freerolls until they heard of another exploit (probably was talked about on the botting forums) and they decided it's way easier to make money doing this.

Pretty gross.. and I've had some weird **** happen on ACR as well.. it does feel unnatural for sure.

it has been a exploit for years on all sites

if you reg they move you to the table with the least amount of players

makes it quite easy to bumhunt

A bunch of those Russian ones crash a MTT at the very last minute and get a new table going. Then they don't play a hand. They wind the time down and will disconnect to add more time. Look at the Early Special 7K GTD. They are there almost daily with last minute registration and time out into the money. When it's an entire table, they don't complete an orbit in a full blind level. Same names, every day.

That's pretty messed up. Do you have names?

Malyshchnuk, kalinokow, prettyoleysa, (spelling is wrong I'm sure), and others. Every single day, $7K GTD Early Special they do it. They aren't playing poker, they found a way to exploit the seating and time clock. Seriously, they rarely play any hands. It's many day games, their evening, this happens. Same thing happened in the $12,500 GTD $50+5 today. $2300 overlay and I reg'd as soon as I saw it and got stuck sitting with them. It's miserable to have them in your game and f'n maddening to be stuck in the table with them.

Actually, go to those lobbies now and scroll down to where the bubble was. You can find many of the players mentioned in the vid +/- 10-15 places of the bubble.

If the $6K GTD is close to the bubble as registration ends, may see the same thing happen.

One way to end that is to reseat after registration ends, but that also hurts the people that were tight on their current table or the tables open up and have 2 seats empty the final couple minutes.

Or don’t have late reg so close to the money

This new video is unreal Joey. This is super clear evidence of collusion at MTTs. I think you also unintentionally uncovered massive botting at the freerolls. Maybe one honest crazy mother****er might play thousands of tiny $10 freerolls, but the fact that these already sketchy accounts (due to their real money MTT stats) also have played thousands of freerolls each clearly indicates that freeroll botting is a popular entry level in the bot/collusion community. I feel bad for the honest people in the freerolls with a dream of running up a roll from nothing 2008 style who have to be up against a field infested with bots.

Even if they did this, its still a giant issue that 4 colluders could hop onto the same table and card share and/or gain massive EV by squeezing players. IE colluder 1 opens button, real human 3bets, colluder 2 in the big blind cold 4bets with an ace blocker in hand knowing that colluder 1 also has an ace in hand, then colluder 1 comes over the top and jams. Even without card sharing this would be massively profitable since the real human is going to have to fold almost every hand.

This is a great point, and something that has been exploited within WPN/APR for years.

For those unaware: WPN/APR allows for extremely long registration periods (~3 hours), and allows for those joining at the last minute to all be seated together. As such, it is not rare to have a whole table of Russian bots join at the last minute when 90% of the field has been knocked out and all mincash in the manner described above.

WPN's lack of giving a crap at all for many years is just unbelievable, and I am really grateful to Joe Ingram for using his status within the poker community to draw attention to such a harmful/corrupt network.

If I saw it correctly, the ones he showed weren't profiting massively from the freerolls, they just played a lot of them before their account was taken over, or they started the exploit.

I'm not sure they're bots. Some other players do that, too. If you call them out and ask if the .in cash is that important, some laugh about it and will agree.

I complained many times and was told to send screen shots of the ones that disconnected. I don't know if anything beyond a warning ever happened, but I had to send at least a dozen screen shots over. TD even posted a thread asking to be alerted when someone does it.

If someone is sitting with 18K and a new table opens with 10K starting stack stallers, the 18K quickly finds themselves under the chipstacks of the stalling table.

It didn't happen on the $6K just now either.

Doesn't anyone ever ask themselves how can a network a fraction of the size of Pokerstars give away hundreds of thousands of dollars in overlays/other perks a week and continue to function?

Of course we would all like a crazy percentage of rakeback but every poker/gambling site is around to make money so to give away what this network does for as long as it has I have to question how it can be done?

We see the greedy pokerstars changes and wpn goes in even harder with kickbacks towards the players while not having even close to pokerstars net worth?

A lot of people would rather not question this because they want to enjoy these things but what if the money they are putting into the business to give players kick backs was from something going on internally? I don't want to jump to this conclusion completely but you have to admit something is weird with the business model of this network.

Thanks to Joey for these videos and to everyone who contributes to resolving potential/alleged "unfair" practices going on at the tables.

I imagine that any bot playing a freeroll is the super entry level $100 bot which plays a super basic and not great strategy. If you dropped big cash on the advanced bot or took the hundreds of hours to develop it yourself, you're in the real tournaments or cash games. So I'm not at all surprised to see them barely winning at the freerolls. Its still bad for the games, since the prize pool is fixed and these guys are taking a significant portion of it away from real people.

Do you honestly think there's real people out there playing thousands of $10 freerolls? Mayyyybe one weird crazy person who refuses to deposit. But dozens of these suspect accounts?

This may be nothing at all, and i'll be the first to say that i'm not good, and was only playing the micros. Pretty sure i wasn't being super used

I played there a pretty good amount in 2016, and at some point a lot of new accounts start popping up. I'm not doing so hot, so i started looking at who i was losing to, and it seemed to me that the battles that i had with the other regs were pretty standard, and looking at stats like "Vs opponent" the hands won/loss would be pretty even. Some guys might have an advantage by a bit and i would say definitely they were better than me. But overall those stats seemed in the ballpark of 50/50 or 60/40.

The new accounts i seemed to struggle against, and i'm sure some of that could be explained as decent players playing having accounts on other skins.
So i started marking everyone, looking at stats, screenshots, bought some HH's.

The other group that was killing me was these players that were very fishy types. That you should be mopping up, but it just doesn't go that way.

When i looked at "Vs opponent" against these type of players the hands won/loss would be more skewed. These players for some reason have a 3-1, 4-1, 5-1 advantage over me.

Maybe in the end it all evens out, and i was just on a bad run or sucked, or whatever.

Looking through my folder i have a bunch of screenshots where i had marked all the new accounts and used the buddy list feature in PT4 and looked at reports, and just tried to see who was winning and losing. just pulling a couple of screenshots up, Looking at top 15 winners 10/15 were new accounts, Top 20 losers 2/20 were new. Does that mean anything? Probably not, but it at least seemed odd.

I haven't played since that time due to health issues, but love the site, i may have been just having some bad luck or looking at it the wrong way or something but it left me feeling weird.

Wow that late reg. I can conform that. Evertime I Ave approached a bubble, I recognized, that suddenly the player count will rise from eg 60 (itm 45) so let's Say 100. Then there are like 40player wie only 5bb,u would assume, that the field gets shorter fast, cause of low stack depth, but what will happen is, that per table 8shortstack accounts at one table (maybe all from the same colluder?) will just hardcore soft and timeplay.

Its pretty obvious that there is massive massive mtt collusion going on. Probably a ring oder someone with just a lot of accounts printing money's. It's insane.

The security on that site is non existent. This is a security flaw, which was probably fixes on a site like PS or even Pp years, many man years ago. I have never seen something like that on any site.

Pretty ridic

Mobile phone auto correction is awful sry

Okay I am going full tin foil hat now, sry. Why have there been so many tournaments with overlay in the last weeks, Specially since the new schedule?

Or the better question is why does it seem that acr isn't caring at all about these overlays? During the last weeks there were daily tournaments with tens of thousands of dollars in overlay. Iam not talking about something happening once a week, like it could on PS or Pp.

I even got a f***king mail to Play the new Sunday major and the advertised it by saying that is got huge overlay, wtf?!

I mean, I don't know how much acr rakes per day, but Iam starting to wonder: would a profit oriented company just give away hundreds of thousands of dollars? I might get it with the new Sunday major, costly advertising, Okay.

But with the new streak tournaments i 100% don't understand that. There is or was (note sure if they are still running) a daily 200$ streak which was overlaying every day. Why wouldn't you stop that or lower the guarantee after let's say 3 failed guaranteed prizepools?

Well if you got enough bots, registering 1min before closing the late registration, and soft playing with that exploit getting ridiculous itm%, there would be no incentive for you to lower the guarantee. The money will come back to you anyways, and by guarantee bigger price pool's u will suck more players in.

/Fulltinfoilhatmodeoff

After playing a couple of bots on that site, and seeing this exploit taken place, and nothing is done against, I feel like everything is possible on that... Probably no house bots, just normal eastern bots, lol, but still,who knows.

I do think someone out there might , but you are right that they are infested with bots most likely.

The Winning Poker Network is thoroughly investigating all claims recently brought to our attention through social media channels regarding alleged unfair gameplay practices from certain accounts on Network brands.
Providing a safe gameplay environment is the highest priority for the Winning Poker Network. To that end, WPN provides for player access to their hand histories underlying any suspicion or complaint, making it possible for player reporting of evidence of improper play.
To bolster our security team, WPN will engage additional help, from outside WPN, to coordinate this review, in light of the scope of allegations brought forth on social media this past week.
We invite all players who have any additional information regarding these reportedly suspicious instances, or proof or suspicion of collusion, bot use, or cheating in any form, to email our security review department at gameintegrity@winningpokernetwork.com . Please provide both specific complaints, accompanying hand histories and support for your belief that collusion, cheating, or bot-play has taken place.
We will investigate each report and develop further analysis of player activities. WPN will act on what it may determine, while respecting player privacy concerns among other matters