Oh yeah? Should we wait till the old man turns over before we take down this site?

"So bettors shouldn't be stunned if they fall prey to cheating on online sites, or are unknowingly matched up against robots, or simply find that the site they put deposits in has disappeared. All of those things have already happened, and they will keep happening at least until online gambling is legalized and regulated. Because that no longer appears to be in the offing, our mobsters should continue to prosper. Now they just need to reinvest, diversify and pursue win-win partnering opportunities. Let's get those business-school applications in, people."

this article was written 8 years ago.. lmao

Horus provided solid evidence of mafia ties. Where's your evidence that it's preposterous to speculate that thumb breakers might want to retaliate for potentially affecting their bottom-line? None? Oh, OK.

But if your name is Joey or Paulie you get a free pass.

I could give 2 ***** who is running this site. If you're taking money from me, you're hurting my bottom line and If I had a choice I'd take your pointer finger so you can't click the mouse anymore.

..?

Bots don't have fingers....

I know you made a separate thread for this Bobo but I want to post it here also on the issue of advertising.

I know that it is only getting tougher for 2p2 to continue to make money as the years go on. I'm not sure what the deal with WPN is, if it is affiliate, set price per period or a combination of both but I do believe that advertising to the 2p2 audience right now when we've heard nothing from WPN about anything to do with this is pretty ridiculous.

I will personally take up the task to find other companies that want to advertise on 2p2 to replace this revenue if I have to because I do appreciate greatly the impact that 2p2 has had on myself and poker as a whole. I will put in some SNE type grind sessions with Bobo and we will make magic happen. I know that Mason can get under some peoples skin but he is one of my favorite people I've met in poker, has helped me with projects, given me advice when I've asked for it and overall, has been one of the most supportive people I've met in the poker industry. When you start to meet & talk with people/companies in the poker world, you begin to realize how rare it is for someone to support what you do because they believe it is great for the poker world & not ask for anything back (except for one smallllllll thing which I have now come to see the light on and if someone could guess it, I will give them a reward .) I could speak a lot more on this and the way I feel about 2p2 but I'll leave it at this for now.


Hopefully, I can talk to them and let them know how much more money they could be making if they cleaned this **** up. I do want there to be a site that American players can play on, feel backed up by security, and have a chance to make something of themselves at poker. WPN has all the potential to do this for the foreseeable future if they can fix all of the bull**** going on with their site. It will be challenging and take some time but I do think it can be done.

And if worse comes to worse, I die for the cause. I don't want to see online poker continue in this direction and I don't think that it has to. I've lived a great life, if I go down over something I truly believe in then I do. It's been a great ride. Shout out to the mafia, let's chat about making your product great.

If anyone can answer this question please:

How can a site operate (without superusing/colluding to steal top prize money), with guaranteed tournaments running in the $100,000+/day, and realistically they don't come close.

I'm currently playing the $100+9 NLO8 $10,000 Guaranteed. 34 minutes ago there were 60 players registered, and there are now 90 PLAYERS REGGED!!!

THIS IS 2 HOURS AND 48 MINUTES AFTER THIS $100 BUY IN STARTED!!!!

So, 30 players were registered in the first hour, BUT NOW WHEN THE BLINDS ARE 400-800 WITH AN 80 ANTE, 90 PLAYERS HAVE PUT UP $100???!?!

Honestly what decent O8 player will put up $100 after TWO HOURS of play when the blinds make your starting stack equivalent to less than 15 big blinds???

I wish I knew more about the tournament ecosystem, tournament player behaviors/patterns/etc.. There are so many little things you learn about when you put in 1000+ hours playing a game type.

Sam G post above about why he thinks he is playing against a bot is a great example of something you can only understand after you've played a ton of poker at a somewhat competent level.

It does look like most of these are re-buys for this particular tournament.

ACR has been overlaying a ridiculous amount on a nightly basis lately, but I think they should be able to make that up each day in MTT rake. Once again, I don't know enough about the tournament world to understand how common/uncommon this practice is.

I do think I have finally realized something I've been missing to why the PLO cash games aren't legitimate from thinking more about the tournament ecosystem. The crazy thing about these type of things is that they are so much strat for the people on the other side of things. This is like pattern recognition 101 for getting better at poker. You pick up on all these little different things players do when you play with them enough. You begin to realize what patterns are normal, good, bad, outliers, etc., etc. Most of the time, the players have no idea that they are using these patterns. This is a big thing that separates great players from bad/decent/good players. If you were to point out to a good player that they have a big habit of doing this, this and that which leads to them being incredibly unbalanced and exploitable, they could fix it straightaway. I think the same thing applies here.

word

Sorry if I'm slow here (I haven't read every post in the thread) but it seems like the logical conclusion is that not only are there colluding bots and super users on the network, but some of these bots are most likely managed by ACR's management themselves (or friends and family).

Has that been established?

I just emailed WPN with the names of three Ukrainian accounts I think are cheating at uNL.
I'll see when and if they respond.

If they are getting killed by overlays this is an easy solution... not saying its happening but with an unregulated site there's no one to stop them.

WPN may be at a point soon where they are going to run into the problem Lock Poker had with players making a run on the bank. This occurred for Lock due to late payouts whereas WPN it could be due to threads like this one hitting the masses.

I've seen a few of Phil's blogs and he seems to have a decent understanding of this business... so he should be able to turn the ship around and clean up this mess before it becomes a house of cards collapsing on him.
Poker for America in some form is essential for the longevity of the game.
Joey thanks for putting the pressure on and Phil please reach out to friends/industry people to clean up this mess.

WPN's response:


On of the accounts I reported is currently playing a full ring game. We'll see if they take any action against it in the future I guess.

common sense tells me something is not right there, hence: I don't play there

Is this true for everyone? I seen this said alot on twitter and thought ACR uses some averaging BTC price from mutiple xchanges or what every it is called.

My experience has been different; 70% of my BTC withdraws have been slightly more (not much like 1-2%) than the ammount I requested that has lead to a slight profit for my withdraws. I wonder if it matters if players do their withdraws during a bull vs bear market time on BTC?

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the plo bots i reported to security & posted in wpn forum in november are still playing every day. doubt anything will happen tbh

It was a few years ago when there was a lot of collusion going on in DON's (double or nothing) sngs. Phil had a twitch stream and pretty much said if you think there is cheating going on in them then don't play. I don't know if anyone has the clip of that, but it pretty much summed up how seriously they take cheating and other security issues.

Yes, it is called legalized, regulated and taxed online poker in US. All that you posit ACR with is absolutely of no surprise imo even if you wind up successful in proving such allegations. Instead of "hoping" to get this offshore illegal site (not bound by any US jurisdiction) turned around with doing the "right" thing, why not devote your energies to where it really may count more so? For instance, use your poker fame and start a movement in getting your Congressmen aware of this specific cheating scandal sponsoring site to help them understand the need for online poker's legalization pronto where everybody wins with an all the more brighter and SUSTAINABLE future? You think that enduring future will reside with online poker continuing to be relegated to these sites? That is a futile game of whack o mole imho.

44bars is Portugal, I was at a table with him and 3 other Portugal players yesterday all in a row at same table and there was weird stuff going on. This was 30 min after I watched Joe's vid. Really made me mad to say the least

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So 44bars is getting callled out over and over.

I see a lot of evidence of bots, but nothing of superusers etc... Why are we tying his name to the botting and min cashing bots?

Is there a connection I am missing somehow?

The most concerning thing about this whole situation is that we haven't heard anything from WPN about this, other than an LOL, I see the thread post. There should be some sort of actions taken on their end, or at least a "hey, this is what we plan on doing going forward."

Well two of the three accounts I reported are sitting together at a 6max table as I'm writing this. WPN is taking botting very seriously.

If I reported you as a bot, should they suspend your account instantly?