Nitwoutborders has been an MTT reg for quite some time now, but I have seen/heard some fishy things regarding possible multiaccounting.

BCM is just a spewy bad reg on a heater. I've played over 15K hands with him and never seen anything too out of line to suspect multiaccounting, just his unreal sunrun and lack of losing all ins the past few months, 100% not a bot. (same for above account)

That's concerning, didn't realize they quit requiring every account to verify, that used to be their policy but I've also been playing there since before BTC.

BCM went to my university and his screen name is pretty much his real name abbreviated. I doubt someone involved in shadiness would use their real name as their screen name. Also, I know Scoopjackson in real life quite well and he's just a ridiculously good poker player.

I think its fair to investigate issues but lets not just throw out screen names of winning players at random.

I think people should come to this thread with evidence like hand examples or video of shady behavior instead of just throwing out names of winning players. If people flood this thread with tons of random SNs we won't make any real progress in the issue and will spend our time defending SNs instead of getting to the bottom of any potential shadiness

Agreed

Many thanks to Chicago Joey for making the video.

This is a necessary thread imo. WPN reps mocking and then blatantly ignoring posts about bots in their own sub-forum calls for a more public shaming.

I want to believe there is nothing ****ey going on , I posted this knowing full well i'd look like just another unsatisfied customer. I assure you that's not the case and something about playing with particular accounts on wpn feels unnatural.

I will be the first to apologize to these people if i am in fact wrong.

I will also be doing my own research.

Cliffs of vid:

- rambles incoherently
- provides no actual evidence of cheating at all
- admits to cheating himself in the past

(I'm sure there's something wrong on this site and I'm all for doing something about it, but you'll have to try a bit harder...)

Pretty much exactly what i have been saying but it's "The Legend Joey" so normal standards do not apply here. Anyone else posts a video like that and it get zero traction and 2+2 closes the thread..

Joey says he knows some guys "running bots" but never gave us the name(s) SN's.. I think that would be helpful.

Jesus Christ, this is exactly what I knew was going to happen.. "Heebee jeebees" no data, no screenshots, no evidence, just heeby jeebes..

Would the fact that bot makers advertise the fact that ACR supports them satisfy you?

Either you don't read well, or worded your post very poorly. The link you provided says the bot supports ACR, not that ACR supports the bot. There's a BIG difference.

I can't see why we'd want to advertise the bot, so I'll be removing the link.

Lol not even surprised by this, once again not understanding things correctly and posting nonsense

Gives you the heebee jeebee's? Wtf does that even mean. Another idiot speculating with zero proof not even a lousy screenshot. Tell you what if you find a lot of them in any one tourny please let me know, thanks!

From a major bot vendor website:



At least a silver lining of the mass ban wave at 888 is that it is having a small negative effect on the botting community. Too bad 888 represents such a small part of the American market.

Good thread on a microstakes ACR NL botter that is winning at nl10 at 1bb/100:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-bots-1696587/

This botter is still active at this moment and his bots are sitting at the same tables more and more. It wouldn’t be hard to just tweak the lines of code that do equity calculations based on opponents range to include the dead hole cards of your other bots. I would think a decent programmer could do that in an hour.

I’m less concerned with collusion like this however because his winrate is meh and they are beatable like Joey said. But someone gaining an unfair edge at the highest stakes available should be quite concerning. If they’re cheating at high stakes they can afford to spend the time to make it an authentic competitive experience for the opponent while still maintaining a huge edge.

Excellent point.

hate quoting myself, but:

anyway, Joey, community obv believes you on this one, but you need to post some sort of evidence

hospital for a bad cold? lolz.

People were wondering about 44bars PokerStars ban. I saw that he discussed it himself in his thread in NVG. Here it is:

888 is actually most of the US Market... WSOP is 888 software and a lot of NJ plays with 888 software

Don’t think “bcmclaw” is a bot imo... I’ve played lots with this guy on WSOP.com

I deposited and withdrew several times via Bitcoin in the last few months and never sent them anything

This security flaw is most serious.

Is this true for other sites that take crypto, or only on WPN/ACR ?

From the link you removed:

"Most of casinos that we support at the moment, are loyal towards bots"


I guess I don't read very well, because I assume that when a botmaker lists a particular site as "loyal towards bots," that means they are enabling them, which meets my definition of support, as well as the definition that happens to pop up when you google the word 'support,' coincidentally.



I find it interesting how a small group of users on here find the need to attack other people who mention that ACR has a botting problem, or attack people who offer evidence of the problem.

I personally am not hopeful that the grey market US-facing sites will ever seriously deal with bots. From a purely business perspective they have no incentive to.

A fully above-board site like Pokerstars has an incentive to maximize profits over the long run. Turning a blind eye to bots increases short term profits during a few year period, but in the long run (5-10+ years) will inevitably kill the games. Pokerstars wants to still be making money 10 years from now, so they invest in security to deal with bots.

For sites like WPN, they know that there's very little chance they'll be around 5-10 years from now, at least as a major site. Every time a high population U.S. state regulates poker, that market is gone. If a gigantic state like CA/NY did so, that would be a huge blow, and with budget issues in both of those states its a real possibility. Not to mention the ever-looming threat of a DOJ crackdown.

So even if there were a magical button they could press that would ban all bots, they would have no incentive to press it and drastically reduce their cash game traffic today, even if it would lead to healthier traffic after a few years of rebuilding.

But there isn't a magical button they could press. Successfully identifying bots/colluders involves a lot of manpower and cutting edge programming to stay one step ahead of the bots and avoid banning honest regs who just play a predictable, high volume style. That's a lot of money which WPN has no incentive to spend - per above they probably wouldn't even crack down if there were a magic button.

So honestly the only real solution to this problem is large scale regulated interstate U.S. online poker, with most of the high population states on board. Only then will above board corporations (I.E. Stars and some day Run It Once) have an economic incentive to invest in security to protect the long-term health of the games for U.S. players.

By then, WPN's owners will be chilling at a sick house in Thailand and won't give a damn.

^^

nicely articulated and spot on.