How come there is no talk about the article that was written about the security flaw that was found with GGPoker? This flaw gave people the ability to know the player names and hole cards. GG was made aware of this and seemed to not GAF. https://cardplayerlifestyle.com/ggne...-player-names/

Where's my refund?? When can I expect an apology from 2+2 about being banned when I said GG had super users over a year ago?!?!?!?!??!

This is not just with GG but I installed DriveHud and that software always downloads a file called "winpcap for PM catcher" and I asked ChatGPT about this and this was his response, "It is possible for someone to use software that utilizes WinPcap to cheat at online poker. By capturing and analyzing network traffic, a malicious actor could potentially gain access to sensitive information such as the hole cards of other players, and use that information to gain an unfair advantage.

Additionally, a malicious actor could use the packet capture functionality of WinPcap to intercept and modify network traffic, potentially allowing them to cheat by altering the outcome of hands or triggering a software bug that gives them an unfair advantage."

How about Pokertracker4 and HM3 both come back positive for Trojan/Malware when I run them through www.virustotal.com???

My other account got banned by 2+2 mods because I brought that before and those posts removed. I have no doubt this one will be to.

Am I the last person who plays online poker? Why am I the only who cares about this?

I guess because no one has read the article from yesterday that saw fit to start a thread on it, until you did. Why are you worried about that?

Why would you be getting a refund? Were you cheated? Even the article's author doesn't think they were.

How is that related to this?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This article talks about a security vulnerability that potentially could be used by malicious actors, the author does not believe they have ever been cheated, and a fellow cyber security expert continues to play there because he would only concerned about being cheated on his own Wi-Fi (and he plays micros takes). So while it sounds like it was possible for someone to cheat through this vulnerability, it would have required a great deal of sophistication, and to this point there's no evidence it's actually happened. That's a far cry from your outright declaration that GG had super users. What evidence did you provide?

I'm not sure that ChatGPT should be used as an authoritative source for this.

Oh, now this is sounding familiar. I can remember interacting with you or someone else like you about this. I pointed out that false positives are pretty common with all sorts of software, and got a pretty angry response.

The issue in the article seems pretty important, and hopefully it has been handled as GGPoker says it has. It's a shame that the first thread we got about it had to be wrapped up in all the baggage you decided to bring with it.

It actually says in the article GGPoker fixed the issue already by using SSL.

SSL encrypts the data, so even if someone used the methods they’re describing to capture the packets, they wouldn’t be able to see anything important since it’s encrypted.

I’d say it’s highly unlikely anyone ever exploited this, since you’d have to be on the same network to “easily” pull off the attack. There aren’t that many people out there who could pull off this attack, most who could can also get paid the big bucks in a normal job … so not much motive.

Would also be highly suspicious when player A on the same network as player B, keeps winning at an insane rate from player B

also, it said in the article you had to be on the same wifi/network
so dont invite cheaters into your house, but thats always good advice

gg did nothing wrong here, and they certainly didnt cheat

Now fixed, but they were sending unencrypted player and hand information across the interwebs, which I would class as doing something wrong.

Just a hint OP, your credibility would be a lot higher if 1) account not created in January 2023, 2) thread title doesn't feature six ?????? question marks, and 3) you don't base your argument on ChatGPT lmao

Looking forward to the potential this thread holds....

Really a shame we can't read your first train wreck of a thread. That'd likely be close to the gold standard for entertainment. Personally haven't been posting that long here but been a part of many different forums for 25+ years now and gotta say 2+2 is honestly pretty soft compared to what you can get away with on many others. Not complaining personally think the mods/admins here do a pretty good job. You'd have to be pretty extreme and outline in my experience to get banned from here. With that said I have no idea what it use to be like.....however doubt it's changed much over the course of a 1-2 years.

No thoughts on GG Poker only played there a short time and mainly micro-$15 MTT's. Idk didn't seem any different or much different from Pokerstar's where I started playing just before the Moneymaker poker boom. So I have been around and plenty enough experience to know when somethings weird, strange or funky at the table.

Plenty of programs/software give off false positives but yet are perfectly safe.



Cheers!!!

I play poker for more than 10 years now,mostly on fulltilt and pokerstars,ranging from tournaments,spin and go and sit and go on demands,plus some plo back in the fulltilt time.
I started an account on GG about a year ago,but havent deposit or play until the last days of december.
At first,everything was nice,i even hit a jackpot on a tournament and made some middle deep runs.As soon as i started to play more i started to lose with some incredible calls,just like players expect those cards on the board.I can manage loses without an issue,as i played around 20-30.000 tournaments on pokerstars only and never experience so many wrong things i have experienced in the time i spent on GG.
In the begining,i even convinced some of my friends to join GG,because there's way more players there hence bigger guarantees and they all had the same experience..they won at first,just to make them familiar with the site and the platform and they said that there's something fishy over there.
IMO they may have super users,they may have some issues regarding the fact that the whole thing isnt encripted and it may cause problems for genuine players,but i do believe that there's players who cheat constantly with some programs that GG isnt aware off.

On pokerstars,i have about 23% ITM on the long run,while on GG i have 7/160 which is less than 5%,playing basically the same and i consider it's easier to get in the money,because there's a bigger player's pool.

I read the article yesterday as well and i had doubts too,but cant produce any evidence at all.They may be legit or not,the time will tell for sure.It cost me 3000$ what i deposit on the site,i will consider this a tax for stupidity,as i went will the whole pack of sheeps

Also,i see players that are playing under a different flag on pokerstars(i.e Thailand on GG and Montenegro on stars,or Romania on GG and Austria on pokerstars,and this happens in the same time).It's clearly that they play using VPN.If they allow this or they arent aware of this,they probably arent aware about anything else

I read the article. Unless you have access to another player's local network you don't see their hole cards. The server only sends your own hole cards to your client.
The problem is this data is unencrypted.

Three secanarios:
1. You don't share a network with another player. You can't cheat (but you can gleam his name from chat data).

2. You share a network with another player and snoop/tcpdump packets to get the unencrypted contents, you can cheat by knowing his hole cards.

3. They encrypt data and it does not matter where you are you can't see his cards.


The bigger issue was he can send unencrypted instructions to other players clients (make their screen show a fold or incorrect action). It's bad, but I don't think anybody was getting cheated unless the person you were playing had access to your network.

They were not. They were sending unencrypted player data but not had data.

Vpn is allowed on GG

From the article:

You at least need to reread the article.

1. Most definitely were sending hand data from server to your client across the net. Only your hand and the board data we’re sending to you but every player rec d their hand data in clear hexdec

2. It was very easy to capture the data if you were on same local net BUT with much more difficult effort it could be done from anywhere. No evidence it was being done but was technically possible. Maybe gg monitoring would catch it but still could have been done.

Simply put, not using encryption was a very poor choice. Their justification is at least as bad. Part of that was getting client out there and quickly. Maybe that made sense originally but gg isn’t new. This should have been changed long ago. Even the performance reason is poor. SSL overhead is not much today. Transmitting any user specific data for any site unencrypted today is just silly but especially if that data has any potential value in the slightest

3. As to false instructions, again that was still only if you could intercept the packets. So not hard if same local net but hard if not. Plus would need to intercept everything and properly adjust it. That would be hard to do and maintain for a single hand and approaching impossible for longer than a few hands.

It was a poor choice on implementation. It could be exploited but not for long. But any easily avoidable exploit is a poor choice even if difficult to exploit.

LMAO @ ChatGPT as a source for this.

Can't comment about the rest of this, but yeah, if true, not surprising, GG has a long history of being shady and questionable.

I have been talking to the guy on Reddit who found this flaw. He said that you don't need to be on the same network and that if you were the uplink provider that you can cheat on a much bigger scale. He said in the article, "An attacker who targets a certain player could achieve MITM capabilities remotely as well. There are several types of attacks that can take place where an attacker gains this capability even if he is not on the same network as the client." So everyone that says you have to be on the same network is wrong.

He also mentioned, "But I could theoretically manipulate a player to believe that the action on the table went differently than it actually went." This is another major alarm and maybe this is how that hand that got awarded to the wrong player happened. I don't know though as I'm not knowledgeable on this subject at all. I do know the site would fall under the umbrella of being able to use this information. I don't believe that GG is a site run by idiots, and I don't think there is anything that happens on that site that they aren't aware of. I think that it was by design and not incompetence. I wish this got more attention and I don't understand why so many people trust the site. Maybe they just don't speak up or maybe they don't follow poker anymore. I said there were super users on GG a long time ago and I got mocked and banned for doing so.

GG's response is another red flag. They are acting like someone that got caught and not being alerted of a security flaw that they were unaware of. If I were running a poker site and wasn't cheating people and wanted to run a safe site for the players. The first thing I would do when hearing about this would not be to say this was "low priority" and try to sweep it under the rug. What I would do is look into all the games and see if there were players who were playing perfect poker and look to ban all players that were cheating.

This is not at all what GG said and even the guy who found it said that GG's response was "the response is more of a political response than a technical one....".

Anytime that someone says that a site is rigged, they are mocked and told to provide evidence. Someone provided evidence and the mods dismiss this and nobody is saying anything?

I encourage anyone and everyone who is concerned to be vocal and comment in this thread. Maybe if we have enough people respond, GG would actually do something. If you aren't concerned then that's fine too. If you haven't played on GG then you shouldn't comment because you aren't in position to have an opinion on the integrity of their games. I haven't played on GG in a while because I know that it is rigged. I know there are super users on the site and this to me is a big deal. Maybe it's just me but I wish there was more of a response from the players and would like to see a better response from GG. Where's the security council on this one? Seems to me that this would be a good time for them to step in if they were actually concerned.

Thank you for sharing your experience and I agree with you about how it seems that you do well right when you make a deposit and then they pull the rug out from underneath you. I often times felt like the games play like a slot machine. I play cash games and have only played a couple of tournaments. The cash games often feel like a slot machine. It seems to go in bursts as far as making hands or being dealt good ones. They even added that feature that lights up your cards when being dealt premium hands.

I know the tournaments are rigged and there is always a couple of players that are unbeatable that get dealt premium hands at an alarming rate. I can predict what will happen as the hands feel staged. On the bubble, I had to post the BB and the SB and then when the tables merged, they made me post them again and there were players who didn't have to post any when I had to post twice.

No Sir. The problem is You, and nothing else. hard to admit, i know

Bringing to light security vulnerabilities at an online poker site is very welcome and encouraged. The poker community should expect/demand online poker sites have state-of-the-art security measures.

My guess is that legitimate and specific concerns about security vulnerabilities may be taken less seriously if they are accompanied by general speculation about "rigged" games.

Whereas I know that poor security that places users but not the site itself at risk is often a feature not a bug. That the easy way to tell is the speed at which it is fixed. That those that make excuses for the site ignoring the security issue are often, but certainly not always, profiting from the issue. Would you be as cavalier if told a deck in real life was UV marked but since I don't see anyone wearing glasses that would allow them to take advantage the casino should not immediately change the deck?

Specific allegations aside, I think the entire issue of cheating in poker and it's impact on growing the game of poker would benefit a tremendous amount from the Poker Integrity Council having a much bigger and consistent public presence.

They don't have to go after people, or name names, or reveal certain cheating methods, or the means they use to identify cheaters.

But just people like Jason Koon or LuckyChewy making more public announcements, or press releases, or just official public comments in general about anything on the subject. Because without having a bigger presence, and an independent one at that, optically they run the risk of giving the impression of being a self serving operation. Especially since it's part of GG.

Just giving the impression the issue is being taken very seriously would be helpful, and unlike others who might make those kind of statements and nobody having much confidence that there were actions being taken along with their words, I think if guys like Jason or Andrew or Fedor (etc) said it, people respect them enough to think that they wouldn't be saying it if there weren't actions being taken along with the words.

For instance a weekly or semi weekly podcast with one of the Council Members hosting (in rotation if need be) and talking to game security experts, other poker players, executives or owners of poker sites, tournament directors, old school vets that have seen all the problems over the years and how they've been improved, talking in detail about what they're doing, or even just some of the unresolved problems in general.

There's really no legitimate reason not to have a bigger presence, considering the only thing might be the time needed to do it, and presumably they all thought that over when they signed up to be part of the council.

WTF is this about? Why would you go to insults? I don't know you, haven't talked to you, and you just start insulting me for no reason? Get lost and go back to your miserable life since you have nothing to contribute other than insults.

You are angry for me for trying to keep a site accountable and make the games safer? That makes no logical sense whatsoever. Where is your graph on GG? How many hands have you played there? I bet it is zero.

You can't be serious. GG in the response said that they knew about this and that it was low priority. These people are not dumb, they have the best software of any site by far. Everything that happens on that site is by design. It's not ridiculous to say the games are rigged when there is an obvious situation that would allow the site/other players to super use you and even manipulate the game to trick the player as to what action has taken place. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A RIGGED GAME.

Show me your HH on GG or F off and stay out of it with your dumb opinion that is based on nothing but emotion and not on logic or evidence or facts.

Common Sense, logic, evidence, facts > ignorance

This analogy isn't relevant and I'm guessing you haven't played on GG. If anyone has played on GG then this would be a perfect analogy if all the players were wearing glasses and all played perfect poker and every time you make a hand they check fold and every time you whiff a flop they are barreling into you.

I used to hang out with Jason quite a bit because I am good friends with his former roommate so I spent a lot of time at their house. I first met him in 2010 and I don't think he had a sponsorship deal at that point and I don't think he had exploded on the scene yet. I remember him sitting by me and joined our game that we had going and was a super nice guy and was telling me about what he does and his recent success. I was thrilled to see him on WPT Tour a couple of years after that and I was happy for him. He was a stand up guy and I know he worked hard on his game and had a good head on his shoulders. I haven't talked to him in a long time and so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and not speculate on the council and what the purpose of it is. He was always a stand up guy it seemed to me.

I disagree with you about them having interviews on a podcast about what they have done because that would be pointless and would be a giant waste of time. You'd have some people on there that are just giving political answers to set you into a false sense of security that things are being done to ensure the games are safe. It would be a joke.

The answer to creating safe environment to play poker online is with each individual. You shouldn't need a council to know whether you have been cheated or not. I encourage every player who plays poker to study more and learn the percentages and the odds. If you don't know how often a player will flop a pair in NLH with two unpaired cards then it would be hard to know whether the RNG is random or not. I know that I am someone that doesn't do anything half assed and put 100% effort into everything I do. I became obsessed with poker and have studied and done nothing but player poker, study poker, and work my normal full time job. The reason why I know that the sites are rigged is because I put in the work to study and I know the odds, I know the percentages, and I know how impossible the hands that happen online everyday are. I think if you asked ten random people that play poker online how often they flop a pair, that 7 out of 10 won't be able to tell you the answer.

I tried to play on GG after this article got written just to see if the games were any different. I was not shocked that they are exactly the same and nothing has changed at all. When I go through my HH, everything is backwards. My premium hands are the ones that I have the biggest losses and my few wins are always hands I shouldn't have played but was on massive tilt. It just doesn't add up and I tried to run a couple of bluffs and the same thing happened that always happens. I bluff in a spot when I know the other play doesn't have a flush or straight and I'll bet and they always tank and the time bank goes down and they make the call every time. If I make a hand and bet, they check fold. It's not even funny how obvious what goes on at that site is.

Anyone who thinks it is crazy to say their games are rigged should just explain why does a site manipulate the HH if they aren't rigging the games? Do you really think that GG cares about preventing people from data mining people? Of course not, this flaw that they did on purpose is proof of that. How about the fact they have banned winning players for bum hunting. These are all giant red flags to anyone. Anyone who has played on that site and isn't playing 10 tables at a time can see this if they paid attention. I only play two tables of rush at a time and I notice everything. There are patterns that happen that indicate the site is manipulating the games.

- You do well after making a deposit, first session or two usually goes well. Then death switch is flipped.
- If you win a big pot, then they setup a cooler hand and you will lose it right back. I think that they have bots and they let the real people win off of each other and then as soon as a real player wins a big pot, then they send a bot to come in and take it. It's like clockwork. These players will almost always be a new player that you've never seen before and they will always have you covered.
- The cards that these bots have change based on your action. If you fold, then they turn over garbage and if you shove or call then they turn over the nuts. You will see a player play like the biggest fish and shoving all in with "nothing" when you fold and they turn their hand over if someone else calls. If you call, they have the one hand that beats you and it's always a hand that you would never put anyone on. I've never seen these players make these horrific plays and lose. There is no RNG. The hands are set up and staged.
- I will get dealt good hands in streaks. I play two tables and I can't tell you how many times I've been dealt aces on both tables or aces and kings on both tables. It goes in spurts.
- If you have a pocket pair then you will see that card on the other table and you'll miss the set on the table you want it. I've even had the site mock me when they did it to me three times and row and the player used emotes "HAHA" even though all I did was check fold. It only makes sense if they could see my cards on both tables.
- The more money you put in the pot, the harder it is to win. My database shows that when I 3-bet I am winning at a rate of -110bb/100 and my EV bb/100 is 73.50.
- There are players that are impossible to beat. You will whiff the flop against them every time. I have even tried to find the most spread out hand in PLO to see the flop and how it will be nothing connecting with my hand. If I have A-A-K-T double suited and this player raises, and it doesn't matter if you call or raise because the flop will come with zero of your suits and 567 monotone or with two suits to a different suit. These players also have trips every single time if the board is paired. I marked each hand that took place against these players and then created an alias in Drivehud so that I could build a profile to show their ridiculous win rates and how it is impossible to make any hands against them. If you do make a hand like flop a set or make a straight, they will have a higher set or a higher straight or a flush. You can never be in a good spot against these players.

https://imgur.com/a/0jSe2GE

Look at that link and you'll see about 30 hands where I didn't flop one single flush draw. The odds of not flopping a flush draw 30 times in a row would be 11^30, or approximately 1 in 6.85 x 10^47. 1 in 6.85 x 10^47 can be expressed as a decimal as approximately 1.45 x 10^-47 or 0.000000000000000145. As a percentage, it would be 0.000000000000000000145 or 0.00000000000000145%."

I'd like to see someone say that their games aren't rigged based on that.

*

I know I made a good post when I start getting the insults. You know there is no logical response and you know that you can't deny it but you have to try and discredit me so you resort to insult. That means I win. GG

I was playing my last couple of dollars before I get that cheated and what do you know. Another statistical improbable situation came up. Weird right? I played 33 hands and was dealt 3 of the same suit 8 times. I thought that was awfully high and so I figured out that this will happen once out of every 23 hands. 1 out of 23 vs 8 out of 33 is a pretty big difference. Not very random. The odds of this happening are (1/23)^8 * 100 = approximately 0.0015%

https://imgur.com/VqqhF6U

So what happens now? Do I win a prize or something? Does a mod actually do something like warn others or do we just delete this post and ban me like usual?

https://cardplayerlifestyle.com/ggne...-player-names/

Let me know your thoughts ...