seriously! the moral of the story is don't have children.

i'm surprised you have children WT! thanks for sharing and my condolences.

Not really the best of analogies, we are talking about a group of 50 or so poker players passing money back and forth in high stakes poker games. Every one of them either know or should know that funny business can be going on. They aren’t the equivalent of an innocent unknowning grandma walking down the street.

It’s up to them to police their own games, but it’s a little strange how fired up some people get about this crew even though they will never be in same circles

Tons of dirt bags in poker, seems like a waste of energy to care about these guys if you max out at 1500s

I think one reason people care is the majority of the TV/streaming/news coverage seems to be focused on high rollers. So, one of two things here going on. 1)People actually want to see this stuff or 2) Producers like Poker Go, LATB, etc., think that is what people want to see (or don't care).

So, I never really know if I am the only person who never watches high rollers except when forced to by Poker Go (because I like the WSOP, I watch it all, even when there are events I don't care to see) or if people actually want this content. My main streaming venue is King's Casino with their 200-500 Euro buy-ins. But, that is just me. I will unsubscribe to Poker Go as soon as Main Event is over.

There’s seemingly a high roller going every day, not sure anyone really cares anymore

this take is almost as dumb as mine in the post above it.

Makes me sad lol, I love my take

In the NBA, there are 390 active players at any given time. 13 per team
In college Basketball, there are 33,688 male basketball players (according to google)
In high school basketball, there are 547,892 male basketball players (according to google)

Even though there are less than .1% of total male basketball players in the NBA, these are the players who all basketball players watch, and learn from. They've created the records that one can compete to break.

In poker, the 50 or so people passing money in the highest stakes tournaments, are passing money at the games people are watching, and learning from. Both people who play the game, and people who are new to the game but want to play. PokerGo promotes these games and airs the High Rollers at a very high percentage vs other games.

People watch these people, and think they need to be like them to compete. In relation to basketball, Mark Jackson said this about Steph Curry:

"To a degree, he's hurting the game. And what I mean by that is I go into these high school gyms, I watch these kids and the first thing they do is run to the three-point line. You are not Steph Curry. Work on your other aspects of the game. People think that he's just a knockdown shooter. That's not why he's the MVP. He's a complete basketball player."

Kids, high school players, or college players, have now changed how they play, based on what they've seen the select few do at the top.

Poker is no different. People that have never played the game, are watching the "Pros", and trying to be like them. If they find out that the ones they are watching are cheating, it increases the chance that they will also.

This is a much bigger problem that if not dealt with, will trickle down to all stakes, 1500s, 500s, etc,.

No one’s watching the “pros” on TV anymore, that ended 15 years ago

In another thread on Vogelsang tanking we had a poster suggest staging some tanking protest in a 1500 and having people tank constantly until a new Vogelsang rule was in place lol, ridiculous

IMO, the high roller poker player is not the same as a pro basketball player or any other active sport like football or football. In sports, the best usually are able to rise to the top, at least from some starting point. High roller poker is smaller fields and limited by the ability to fund buy-ins. It isn't real. Maybe I am delusional, but from what I have seen in these tournaments, I think I could be competitive if I had the money to do so. I think a lot of people could be. That is the delusion of the high rollers for me. Just because you can afford a $100K buy-in doesn't make you better, it makes you richer. Look at that hedge fund jerk who came in third in the $100K. Just like his job, it has nothing to do with reality.

stupid is as stupid does.

exactly this

You misspelled genius twice

To me, the stupid point that Obvious Jake Schindler tried to make (at least in his first post) is less about the effect it has on the lower-stake players, and more about the notion that lower-stake players are not even allowed to have an opinion about it. Which, of course, is my point in post #114.

Thus, as a nod to Pete Blow, who has my favorite reply above...

Mark Jackson?? WTF do you care how Steph Curry plays. "Hurting the game?" You don't coach his team anymore, remember? And you don't play in the NBA! It doesn't affect you, thus you aren't allowed to have an opinion about it. Ten, fifteen years ago? Sure! Sound of in the late oughts. But not now. Stay in your lane...

Oh wait. My bad.

I shall not get worked up about the fact that Jackson is getting worked up, because I don't play nor coach in the NBA, and never will. I shall not throw stones. So apologies to this man, apologies for sullying the good name of a guy for whom there is photographic evidence of entertaining two boys who later killed their parents. Apologies to a man who paid some stripper thousands of dollars to not share the dick pics he voluntarily sent to her, and apologies to a man who has decided to instead spend his days visiting gyms all around the country to look at teenaged boys.

I feel better already. Thanks!

Yea whatever you're talking about sounds personal. Don't know if I can help with that

But main point is, what people see the pros/elite/players at the highest level do, will increase the chances that they will do the same thing.

Example given: Steph curry shoots deep 3's. Now more high school kids who can probably barely make short 3's, are shooting long 3's with minimal success rate.

Analogy: High stakes players cheat/collude in small field entry events. Kids/new players who want to get into the game, think this is how it should be done. Get a group and collude in small entry field events, become the best/richest with no repercussions.

People look at what the winners do and copy. That's pretty much how every training site markets to their customers. The coaches have won before, now you can too. For 99/month...

Haha yeah, I'm obviously kidding around.

I was taking mrdegen's logic and applying it to your example of Mark Jackson complaining about Steph Curry. It illustrates how ridiculous Obviously Jake Schindler's train of thought is about our distaste for high-stakes cheaters.

(I guess it's not so obvious if I have to explain it.)

I guess I should also add that I totally agree with your post. It's a good one. Which is why I cited it.

The sad part being if there are no meaningful punishments the new kid is correct cheating is how it should be done. Better to be a cheater than a victim in a system that clearly tolerates cheating.

WSOP coverage on the cheaters - 'Cheating allegations haven't kept Ali Imsirovic away from the 2022 World Series of Poker, but an unfortunate river card on Thursday night sent him packing in Event #50: $250,000 Super High Roller No-Limit Hold'em.

Imsirovic wasn't the only accused cheater to compete in the six-figure buy-in tournament. Jake Schindler and Bryn Kenney also came ready to compete for a shot at winning millions of dollars and a gold bracelet.'

Let’s not forget the reputational harm to the poker community writ large generated by these bad actors at the top. I consider myself a poker player and I would hate for someone to associate all players with cheaters like these bags.

I believe all three of them dusted two bullets in the 250k so that's $1.5mm back into the HS economy. That alone may be more than they've gained in EV by cheating, lol

I thought Brynn was still alive, but don't know. The money they returned to the ecosystem is not money that will help anyone they cheated most likely. It is going into a corrupt ecosystem. That is the nature of a closed ecosystem. They shouldn't be playing, that would be better for the entire poker ecosystem than their but-ins here

Cheating and poker have been holding hands since Day 1, the ace up the sleeve, dude getting shot when holding AA88, a road game duo getting their butts kicked in the parking lot by a bunch of cops…

Everyone’s rep is going to be exactly the same as it was. And no one other than somewhat hardcore players even know who these guys are. Ask the average card room drooler his thoughts on Jake Schindler and he will have zero clue

Sorry to ask a little out of the loop i saw the bryn kenney thread and the ali thread; Is jake schindler being accused of the same things? is there a thread?

Same thread as the Ali one applies to jake / they were part of the same cheating crew is my understanding

Do you really think Jake, Ali and Brynn have to worry about guys with guns or fists or just a general beatdown If they were doing this **** in 70s or 80s, they would all be armed. ? No and that is one reason they cheat, no consequences that actually matter. Times change, Cheaters get away with cheating. Life goes on. These guys are pussies. And, because they are pussies, they don't care if they are pussies. No consequences does that to cheaters. Those guys shouldn't be allowed near a WSOP table, but WSOP are also pussies.

Slightlly off topic. The second Mark Jackson left GS, the Warriors started winning everything, hell, they were winning games with ****ing Luke Walton and Mike Brown. Jackson is an idiot who should stop talking forever.

What kind of vague BS is this??? Why hasnt somebody with nothing to lose, who wants the best for poker, dropped everything so that the public are aware??

https://twitter.com/RyanLeng9/status...MWxQXBQvg7BkJA