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Old 01-07-2009, 09:31 PM   #26
Crockett616
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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Oh come on, geeeeeeezz....
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:31 PM   #27
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Sirio, i am a bit younger than you, and came up in a different age so to speak, but i am in a similar enough situation i think. I simply get little to no joy from playing poker anymore, and think it's time for me to move on. I applied to a few schools, and am planning on going back this fall. I intend to not play any poker during school, though may take up coaching a few hours a week to stay sharp. Of course, all this changes assuming i dont get in anywhere, but ill deal with that later.

The issue isnt really not being able to make money. I think games are tougher, but i feel that i have improved as much or more than the others over the past few years, and have made more and more each year since i started playing. I never really cared that PartyPoker went away, and just played whatever site had the most action. I don't really worry that i wont be able to make money in the future, but I think I'm scared that I will still be doing this 10 years from now, and that terrifies me. I dont get any fulfillment out of poker, and just feel like im going through the motions. I realize i have been extremely lucky to come into poker at the right time, and am not really trying to take it for granted. I feel like i took advantage of it while i could, made a bunch from it, and am ready to move on to something better. Maybe not in a monetary sense, but something with more meaning.

I am really curious to hear other stories as well, because i have no idea what it will be like to wake up in the morning, eat some breakfast, then do something other than log on and see if games are running. Even if i have no intention of playing, i still load up lobbies to see if any fish are on. It is sort of disgusting really, and i think it will be liberating to be away from that.

I feel obligated to play more than WANTING to play, and i think that is a problem. I dont think my game suffers that much because of it, but i just have less drive to put in hours, and spend a lot of time thinking about this. Often, i think about just playing 10-20 or smaller, and just grinding it out with pretty small variance, never having a lot of money locked up. Then, a big game goes off and theres fishies, and those games end up being softer than most 10-20 games, just a billion times higher stakes and mind numbing variance. Perhaps my mindset isnt right to play poker forever at the highest stakes, but that's why i am looking for other options.

I am not sure what u want to do in life, you mentioned being a professor, which i think is awesome, and something i could see myself doing somewhere down the line. I got hired coaching high school baseball this spring, and am really looking forward to getting involved in that. My poker time over the last few months has gone down considerably. Even over the last year, i doubt i have averaged over 15 hours a week. Anyways, sorry to derail, not really sure where im going with any of this, just that i am looking to move on too. If you would like to talk about it, shoot me a pm.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:58 PM   #28
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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i quit once. 3 hours later i decided to win my money back instead though


So true...
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:06 PM   #29
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Wow, an in depth topic and truly deep thoughts on nvg, who woulda thought ! Seriously though, I'm a recreational small stakes player myself, I have a 'real' job and all, but ive been kind of expecting for this kind of a discussion with regard to the future of people who now get their income from poker. I have thought that there will be a time when some of the young people (or older) who got into poker during the boom will start thinking about other things to do with their lives. I enjoy poker, but I have always thought that for the very talented people like the young intelligent poker stars theres only so much poker can offer. I dont make much in my government job, but what I find fulfilling is that my job results in concrete achievements, be it administrative stuff. This is something poker could never offer, its only about money and beating other people which I'm not making my goal in life. I work with things im interested in and I see the results of my work, its productive. I have to say that I envy the young guys, who got into poker at the right time, who have had the chance to make a lot of money when they are young and without family ties and obligations, and still have the possibility to move on to something else, to another career, with the experience and the money they have gained. Of course other paths in life are also available to those who are no longer in theri 20s, all you need is the will to pursue your interests. Gl to all of you in your endeavours !

Last edited by Crockett616; 01-07-2009 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:22 PM   #30
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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Ive been playing for about 2.5 years and im thinking about quitting or atleast taking a long break. its probably for different reasons then other posters here, TBH i just feel like poker has turned me into a worse person then i used to be. i remember when i started playing poker i was a pretty honest and genuinely nice guy(for a poker player lol) and i dont remember intentionally trying to make some other person feel bad for no reason. but recently ive just noticed that ive turned into kind of a dick at the poker table. i despise almost everybody i play against. i show people bluffs only to **** with them and make my opponents feel bad. ive noticed myself become more greedy and selfish over the last 6 months or so. u can just see what poker does too people when u play live, all the douchebags that u see at the casinos at 3AM. i mean it just cant be good for somebody to be around these types of people.
Damn bro, I was getting ready to make a serious post about the way poker corrupts the mind, body and spirit but then read this. It's true that the rotten nature of the people you play with and the game itself remains with you when you leave the table, like the way the putrid scent of cigarette smoke lingers on your clothes and in your hair the next day after a night at a club. To stay in this game indefinately would literally be (to use the popular internet term) soulcrushing.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:22 PM   #31
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

OP,

I assume you were some type of adjunct since you don't have a PhD? And what field are you considering for a PhD?
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:24 PM   #32
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Also, I have to play about 15 hours a week to supplement my income. It gets really old. If my salary increased by say 50% over night, I would probably hardly play poker. It's a good second income, but I couldn't imagine doing it full time.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:11 AM   #33
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Is the word for all this "Burn-out"?
3,000-5,000 hands a day, every day.
12-15 hrs a day at a live table.
How about toning it down.
You guys ran your brains into the ground.
I have some admiration for you youngsters who took the game by storm and profitted, but I am convinced you all went into this with an immature youthful exuberance similar to kids playing "Halo", or partying ect. Five years later in your mid-twenties and your mindsets change. "Young, dumb, and full of cum just doesn't thrill you anymore. Isn't that called growing up? Anyway, you all sound so successful minded and proved it in poker, so it seems likely that you will be successful in any endeavor. My guess is that after a little break you will all be back, but this time playing with more real-life restraint.
Good luck out there.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:06 AM   #34
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

been playin' 8 hr poker days for forever and it never gets old
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crockett616 View Post
Wow, an in depth topic and truly deep thoughts on nvg, who woulda thought ! Seriously though, I'm a recreational small stakes player myself, I have a 'real' job and all, but ive been kind of expecting for this kind of a discussion with regard to the future of people who now get their income from poker. I have thought that there will be a time when some of the young people (or older) who got into poker during the boom will start thinking about other things to do with their lives. I enjoy poker, but I have always thought that for the very talented people like the young intelligent poker stars theres only so much poker can offer. I dont make much in my government job, but what I find fulfilling is that my job results in concrete achievements, be it administrative stuff. This is something poker could never offer, its only about money and beating other people which I'm not making my goal in life. I work with things im interested in and I see the results of my work, its productive. I have to say that I envy the young guys, who got into poker at the right time, who have had the chance to make a lot of money when they are young and without family ties and obligations, and still have the possibility to move on to something else, to another career, with the experience and the money they have gained. Of course other paths in life are also available to those who are no longer in theri 20s, all you need is the will to pursue your interests. Gl to all of you in your endeavours !
ur points are well taken but poker has done great things for society such as foreign aid, helping the needy, fundraisers for finding cures for diseases, etc by players who win at poker.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:19 AM   #36
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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Wow, how do you get a job with a salary that increases exponentially?
On average, all salaries increase exponentially.

(1.04)^N

IMO
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:22 AM   #37
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

i go through times where i miss the poker life a lot.... i wouldve been able to go travel to beijing for the olympics, go to the PCA, go hang out in europe, not work as many hours, etc... but the bottom line is that i think there are more interesting things to dedicate your life to than poker. for me, i had a good chance out of undergrad to get a really good job that would not be there for me if i decided to play poker and come back to the 'real' world later... so i figured i'd give it a try. its gone really well and the timing was good because now its next to impossible to get a job.

my attitude is that poker will always be there... if something happens to my job i'll probably come back to it for a while, but ultimately the idea of making bets on the world is more interesting then making bets in a poker hand.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:25 AM   #38
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

OP, I quit poker a little over a year ago.

I guess I'm glad I did, though almost every day I miss poker. I miss the freedom and independence, and the personal challenge. I also just miss the simplicity of it - you have one thing to do, you focus on that and kill it. All jobs in the real world are way more complicated and unclear.

But now I have a job where I feel like I'm doing something important and building something that will last, that I can remember when I'm older and other people will talk about for years to come - unlike poker where it just evaporates every day and you're justing watching the best years of your life disappear with no trace left behind and nothing but money to show for it.

BTW after I decided to quit poker I pissed around and procrastinated getting a job for about 6 months ; best time of my life, I highly recommend doing nothing to everyone.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:55 AM   #39
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Just to balance the conversation, i'm the complete opposite of you guys. I worked a "real job" out of college for 2 years then fell into poker. I play high stakes heads up limit holdem and LOVE making my living playing poker online. For me, there probably aren't 10 jobs in the world I would rather have over what i do now (within reason of course). I find what I do challenging and stimulating. There are downsides of course (the downtime waiting for good action) but nothing in life is perfect.

I have always said that if I had to play tournaments full time, 10 table ring games 40 hours per week or play LIVE I would rather choose a new career. Those career paths in poker would not interest me and I could see where somebody would grow bored quite easily. For me personally, I have found a great career and happiness in playing poker for a living. After all this time, I still look forward to playing it most days. I'm assuming that this enjoyment has played a huge part in my continued success.

I'm a fairly intelligent and well educated individual who could have had other options outside of poker. I choose to do this because I really enjoy it and I find it a great career for me.

In regards to David B, I dont blame you one bit for choosing to go back to school. I wouldnt trade my college years for any amount of $$$$$.

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:10 AM   #40
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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Originally Posted by cbloom View Post
On average, all salaries increase exponentially.

(1.03)^N

IMO
fyp
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:32 AM   #41
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

There are downsides of course (the downtime waiting for good action) but nothing in life is perfect.

[/QUOTE]


Maybe that is cuz you turn down 99% of your opponents.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:32 AM   #42
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

If you feel tired and burned out of poker and you are considering going back to the "real world", I think you should do it. Explore all your options and see what is out there. Don't look back with regret.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:38 PM   #43
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

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Originally Posted by J_V View Post
There are downsides of course (the downtime waiting for good action) but nothing in life is perfect.

Maybe that is cuz you turn down 99% of your opponents.[/quote]
Maybe THAT's why he has been successful. Nothing wrong with game selection. Especially when you're a pro.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:50 PM   #44
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

It doesn't necessarily have to be an either/or proposition. A lot of people ask me how I can still maintain a law practice and essentially be a near-full time pro tourney player. It gives me balance. I play the four (or so) majors Mon-Wed nights and Sundays when I'm playing with good dedication online. That's not a lot of hours. Live tourneys can be a grind but often you bust out, have a day off, etc, and always have mornings to do stuff.

I don't know, I get burned out and frustrated like anyone, but I think having other aspects in life that keep you balanced is possible. If anything, I'd suggest guys like Raptor and Sirio continue playing but a greatly diminished schedule, just to keep in touch with the current dynamics of the game, which are obviously always changing.

Also, just want to say that it's kind of ironic that Raptor and Sirio are the two main contributors here that caught my attention. I remember when I came into playing serious poker Sirio was the standard, as he was just moving up to playing some live $10k events. And Raptor, I remember sweating him a few times and truly "getting" fold equity in tournaments. Two guys that were my early models.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:52 PM   #45
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

BTW, as someone who has been through some seriously different stages in life (military, college, brief stint in a normal "office" job, law school, big firm, solo firm, and now poker), I will say that this sort of restlessness and looking for other things seems to be part of the human condition that you have to live with. Poker's an awesome thing to have. I mean, if you don't think you're profitable and don't enjoy it, obviously move on. But if you're a profitable player keep it around even if its only a few hours once a week or something.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:03 PM   #46
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

My alter-ego and I are pushing, I hate to admit it, the big 4-0. So, I'm significantly older than most of the posters on 2+2, and have been messin' around on 2+2 for the better part of 8 years. "Whoa, oh, what I want to know is ..... where does the time go?"

Poker has almost always taken a back seat to my day job. I am lucky, I guess, in that poker has really been primarily for enjoyment and not income. Those who know me know that my regular job is never boring. Crime pays, as they say.

I don't think I could ever play poker on a full time basis. I like waking up in the morning and never really knowing exactly how the day is going to play out.

In the post-PP days, I still mess around online and play decent enough to hold my own on the lower limit stars games. Online has gotten significantly tougher, IMO. I remember the old PP 2+2 15-30 private games that would be seemingly overly aggressive and therefore subject to chastisement from the 2+2 traditionalists. Many of the games I now encounter online seem to resemble these games.

Just some ramblin' thoughts.

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Old 01-08-2009, 01:30 PM   #47
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

Though with an economic downturn how many will may look to get back into poker. Also there are many new players from countries like Russia getting into the game.
Though I remember Bonus Hunting and was looking at going full time as the results were huge than the deals got worse and fewer and that source of income dissapeared.
That was one reason I went back to work as who knows were online poker goes. Though if I was to get laid off again I would probally go back to poker again.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:44 PM   #48
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

poker should be a stepping stone.. not an end. But unfortunately, not everyone has a lot of options. For someone, poker is , despite its insane amount of stress and ****ed up life style... the monetary compensation from poker is just so much better than other ****ty jobs most people end up..
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:21 PM   #49
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

My goal for poker is to open up other avenues. Two goals: (1) down payment (40%) for a house; (2) start up capital for a coffee shop. The down payment is complete, just grinding for my business now. I will probably still play poker once I open up my coffee shop during downtimes in my office ($160/hour is pretty good) though.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:54 PM   #50
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Re: Changing paths: Experiences about leaving poker

I played full time for 2 years and took a job 3 months ago. I am really enjoying it. During a particularly nasty downswing I applied to a couple of jobs I thought sounded interesting and one of them ended up offering me a position. Worth noting I wasn't busto or sick of poker. It was a bit of a pay cut but I took it because if I hated it I could always go back. I also missed working with people a lot and it seemed an excellent company with a lot of people around my age (late-20's).

What I didn't expect was how different life really feels. Money just goes into my account which has taken an enourmous amount of pressure off the back of my brain. Personally I could never entirely dissociate from the financial side of running good/bad. I also find my free time is more productive because I am able to clearly identify when it starts and ends. There is also no danger of work straying into that time. Plus, I have a new group of people with which to spend that free time. Also, I am enjoying playing poker again - it's a game and not a grind.

People I work with asked why I'd ever stop and I think a lot of them just assumed I was a degenerate at first. The fact is that a professional poker player's life is amazing in theory. High financial rewards, large amounts of spare time and the promise of apparent expert knowledge. The reality is that it's emotionally and mentally exhausting and personally, I didn't love it.
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