lol no they wouldn’t.

i mean we are arguing over this not punt fake and ignoring his other move of trying to get a player on a heater a 1 round penalty

Good point. But remember, he's a great and wonderful guy!!

poker is a strategy game. this whole "do whatever you can to illicit a reaction from your opponents irrespective of any strategy" mindset comes from old heads who don't know proper strategy and have to try to get an edge elsewhere

Details?

The elicitation of tells is just a way of furthering the narrowing down of ranges that can be utilized in addition to VPIP, PFR, c-bet frequencies, 3-bet frequencies, blind steal statistics, etc. It can tip what otherwise was a 50/50 decision into more certain one.

If an opponent shows too much genuine eagerness in response to the no forward movement picking up of chips or fake fold flipping of cards, then that could be a big thing in turning what was a situation of imperfect information into one that is closer to perfect.

Elicitation is part of strategy and tactics. Not an angle shoot.

Lol so you dont play live tourneys anymore because you fell for a trick that a 6 year old wouldn’t fall for?

No I have never played that many live tournaments to begin with. I just brought up the one in which an angleshoot happened.

I don't play live tournaments but I have found a solution to this problem. If someone is taking too long and starting me down I am going to call the clock and tell them to knock it off. If this is happening to anyone just call the clock on the angler.

I remember when Ivan Freitez did multiple rounds of the Chan angle shoot which was described earlier at the EPT final in 2011, the torny director even told the other player affected the last time he did it that he had done it previously and had the nuts when he did it. somehow that guy still made the call though....and he had a big hand again.

Sorry the muck is not match and doesn’t kill a hand.

Look at the definition of an angle. First it doesn’t break the rules. Second it looks s intended to mislead a player on what your action was.

Asking if you will show us not intended to mislead you. And yes the ME s getting almost unwatchable with th excessive time people are taking. When a decision really needs the time no prob. Shot clock likely worse as it becomes a minimum normal time to act. Harder to impl me to but a per player daily time bank is better. You get X seconds extra for the day and 30csec for turn to act. Beyond that consumes from your bank.

Im suprised, and disappointed, this years WSOP didnt have shot clocks and time chips tbh. It is a positive development for poker and imo the future of the game. It would stop all this kind of **** happening

You know worse case scenario you have to wait 5 x 1 minute time chips and thats it.. so villain can mess around all they like, but the clocks tickin' and those time chips are disappearin'

Also I knew that line on the table would cause problems with angle shooting. Ppl pretending to move chips forward then claiming they didnt, or people turning over their hand assuming someone has called

Interesting poker vlog from Ashley Sleeth posted yesterday (Nov 15) on YouTube from her experience in the WSOP monster stack tournament. Near the 12:30 or 13:00 mark of the video she describes a hand against Chance Kornuth in which he 3-bet her initial raise and someone else calls all-in for less, then the hand continued as Chance bet into the side pot. On the river it went check-check and after Ashley showed she said that Chance tried to just muck his hand without showing but she said to him that it's an all-in pot and the rules require that he show, which he did and then gave her some grief for it. (I don't know the rules here, just relaying what she said.)

I wonder what would happen if someone tried to give Chance the same level of grief for what he does within the rules at the poker table?

I am curious - how would you suggest to implement it in a live enviroment?

In a very early WSOP Main Event video (possibly the one from 1973) there was a scene in which one player moves all in....but before the second player acts, he exposes both his hole cards and shows them to the first player - the one that just moved all in. He did this in order to elicit reactions from the all in player. It was legal back then but it has been illegal probably since 2009. And it sucks!!!

Yes, making decisions based on estimates of VPIP, PFR, 3-bet ranges, c-bet frequencies, etc. are important and highly strategic....but real live poker is war. It is about psychology, intimidation, persuasiveness, and tells not just frequencies. I hope that when the WSOP moves to its new location next year that this rule of exposing hole cards be once again be allowed.

Tankings that result from this would be much more entertaining than tankings in which a player does not even look at his opponents. Lame.

I was fully prepared to be outraged, and what I saw didn't come close to meeting that threshold. And let's say for the sake of argument that he does these kinds of things quite frequently. That doesn't make it worse in my book, and instead just gives a heads up to those who take the time to prepare for their opponents. Heck, you could anticipate it and try to level him back.

It is definitely exploitable...but one has to be aware that Chance would be smart enough to balance his fake fold frequencies and chip feint ranges. Instead of criticizing Chance, the poker community should embrace his behaviors and include it in the array of poker weapons.

You wouldn't be invited back at the private games I play in if you're douching it up like this guy.

I'd be calling the clock every hand on him in a tournament.

or just add a 1 to 2 minute shot clock to the game. Not sure why some live players think they need 5 minutes on every street

i don't really know how anyone can look at these poll results and not be open to the idea that what he's done is at least ethically up for debate.

i get that he hasn't broken any rules. just for whatever it's worth, i would feel scummy doing this and, therefore, wouldn't.

As I said harder to do. But still better if you can IMO. Realistically I could not see being possible before the final 27 of ME and final table for most events. Even then, difficult to implement. At best only major tournaments could manage it and would need technology and staff to assist the dealer to pull it off.

Problem with 2min shot clock is that for many of the gto live robots, 1:55 becomes the minntime to act always and suddenly the whole table plays that way.

Mostly because the poll is misleading. When I read pump fake in the poll, I expected to see forward motion in the video.

The poll question and the video don't match.

As an amateur player, I’m glad so many people were able to view this move on a big stage. It’s a good reminder and exhibit of live tactics from people attempting to gain an edge. A good wake up call to be cautious in similar spots.