Also on the same broadcast Chance had another tough call spot and suddenly in a jerking motion pushed one of his cards slightly forward and turned that into a motion of loudly shuffling his two cards on the table as if fidgeting, which was in my view clearly another ploy to get a reaction similar to moving chips to get a reaction.

To me there isn't much of a question about whether or not what Chance did should be legal, or that he broke a rule. The question is what do I (a no-one) think of Chance now after seeing this? Personally, I think it's scummy and I no longer will root for Chance when I see him play. There are obviously much worse things which someone can do, and he likely doesn't give a rat's bottom about who I would root for, but I'll just choose to root for other players.

Both are legal and not angles, both make you look like a douche - if he is okay looking at such then more power to him.

Chance is one of the nicest and most honest persons of integrity in the poker world. I've known him since before he was wealthy, and his success in the last few years has not changed his work ethic. If anything, as a married man with a kid he is more motivated and laser focused to succeed.

What Chance did in that moment is the same thing every 90 year old does all the time. Rules about chips moving forward are very clear. I imagine he won't do it again, but the names he's being called are over the line.

Chance Kornuth started as an online player and after Black Friday had to start grinding live. He is a massive fan of Mike Caro and the former FBI guy Navarro. Shaun Deeb was a coach for a final table player in the past and he hired Chance as a sub-coach whose one and only role was to study that player's opponents' tells and to have that player be aware of his own.

https://youtu.be/DcmFJj80LUI?t=1503

In the later part of the 10 minute tells interview, Chance talks about how to gain info and influence his opponents with his own movements. Frequency and range only MORONS would call these "angle shooting" for sure. But it is legit because as important as frequencies and ranges are, Chance realizes that the "tells" part of the game can also add to his advantages.

Hi Chance

If a rec did that to chance or some other pro they’d be calling the floor immediately.

Illegal no.
Angle shooting no.
Bad look yes.

Not every rec is intimately familiar with the rules regarding what constitutes action and what doesn't, and I say this as someone who was once tricked by this on a much smaller stage despite being pretty experienced. The guy got me, good for him. I racked up and left and never returned to that cardoom.

It's typical short sighted thinking of the pro player. Maybe in this case, deep in the WSOP main, he doesn't care about long term because he thinks this is his one shot to make life changing money. And maybe he's right and it's every person for themselves and if you put up 10 grand, it's your own fault if you don't know the rules.

I still consider it a bad look.

/thread

this happened to me in a $5k vs Jeff Madsen after he went on that heater at WSOP as POY. justice was served as i proceeded to 2 out him AIPF.

pretty much this, although everyone is soooo sensitive these days,

If someone did that to me, I would love it. But I enjoy the theatrics of poker, that includes that 9 high like a boss guy.

Imagine doing this when already living a blessed life. Doubt the dude has lost a flip ever. Why angle when you win every allin anyways?

Yup.

Some of the responses are a little too strong, not cheating, wouldn't consider it an angle shoot. But definitely a bad look and bad for the game. It also rarely works so just -EV since you slow down the game and turns off recs. Really hate when pros pull moves like this, live MTTs are already pretty soft just hurting everyone.

wtf if that's an angle shoot we also have to consider asking questions like "are you gonna show if I fold" angle shooting as well. and are we really going to complain about people taking too long when they are deep in the ME?

Everyone has focused on his chip movements; but he never moved the chips forward so no rule was broken. To me the far worse issue was the quick jerking fake fold move pointed out by a poster above.

I’d prefer poker be a game of strategy, and not a sport like basketball where players constantly make fakes and feints to throw off the opponent. ItÂ’s gross and disrespectful of time. A fake fold move, if not against the rules, should be. On that fake jerking fold move hand, Kornuth should have been given at least a warning.

Fakes and feints have been part of the game of strategy since the days of Alexander the Great and Sun Tzu.

Bluffing is a fake. Slowplaying is a fake. Shifting gears is a feint.

Just because psychological stuff like verbal influence and eliciting tells via body movements are not available online does not mean they shouldn't be part of one's feinting and faking moves live.

Poker afterall started out played live. And the WSOP ME is obviously live. If you want to do away with social influence then just give the players computer screens and let them play in separate spaces. One at the Penn and Teller Theatre...the other at the Amazon Room...another from where the buffet used to be....etc. Make sure they can't see each other's tells. Make sure they can't communicate.

don't play live and never will as live poker just looks miserable to me but if i did i would be glad to have some angle shooting asshat at my table. The more time someone is practicing their awesome angles the less time they're actually learning how to play poker. Maybe i'm wrong but i can't think of a single habitual Angler that's actually good at poker. Take AM for example Dude's one of the biggest Angle shooters around and i doubt he could beat 5NL

I'm totally fine with bluffing, slowplaying, and shifting gears, of course. I'm even totally fine with 99% of the physical stuff players do to trick their opponents. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. After all, that is why we have chip forward motion rule to begin with. In my opinion, flicking your cards forward to trick your opponent into thinking you are folding should not be allowed. Warning then penalty.

If it hits the muck then it is a fold. Period.

If you fake flick and the opponent shows a tell that indicates a genuine sigh of relief that you would have folded and then you exploit that tell by actually calling, then that's fair game. It is his responsibility to keep his poker face on at all times.

.....and it is fair game for this same opponent to fake his sigh of relief tell too, and then to exploit you.

You can even balance your fake flick ranges and he his fake tells ranges. Fair game.

nice

card flick gto charts incoming. Thanks alot Chance, one more thing Im never gonna understand

Exactly. This guy totally angleshooted. Now of course after there is some blowback online here all the "I've known Chance forever and he is wonderful" posters start magically appearing. Lol

"Strong means weak" or "Weak means strong" example?

cmon man. "angleshot". You are an educated man and know better than that.

I've only been in 1 tournament about 10 years ago where someone tried to angleshoot me and since I don't play many tournaments I fell for it. It was a wsop circuit main. I think I raised to 800 or something and the dude threw in like 12,000 and then immediately said "Oh wait Oh no I meant to call oh no oh no" lol. Of course the chips had to stay so I had 66 or something and I decided to shove on him for my 50,000 thinking stupidly he would fold. He beat me into the pot. Turns over AA and I remember just staring at him shaking my head. He had slightly less than me. A 6 though came on the flop and I knocked him out and it felt damn good.

The whole table then told me they believed him too, he looked so sincere that he messed up by throwing that 12k out there. That experience just solidified to me how shady so many poker players are. Scamming, angleshooting, cheating, etc...

How do you know if I am an educated man or not? Im sorry I didn't realize you and I had private conversations about my educational history. Are you just trying to be the forum bully or grammar police? Yes excuse me I made a mistake. I just woke up a little bit ago, was reading this thread and used the wrong word. It won't happen again master.

Master Poker Vlogger vigorously defends Chance...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Vx...eTrooper97Vlog

....viciously attacks Chance's critics!!!!!