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Old 10-28-2011, 11:39 PM   #51
Mark275
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

ftp wont payout lol cuz they dont have the $$$, no1 in the right min will invest either
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:39 PM   #52
ike
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Bullits View Post
Blanca Games is being liquidated, the parent company of Cereus.



Doesn't the DoJ's involvement make this situation much different from the above mentioned?
I really don't know. I don't know exactly what the DoJ's involvement in this situation is at this point. For all I can tell, the DoJ could do anything ranging from unfreezing $ to facilitate repayments to keeping all of the money they already have and laying claim to any proceeds of the liquidation.

Tusk and Eurolinx went under for reasons having nothing to do with legal trouble. BetOnSports went into liquidation following the indictment of their CEO by the DoJ. I do not believe that there were in rem warrants against BetOnSports' assets. I have no idea how that distinction should impact any of these but it seems potentially important. Maybe someone who knows more about the technical/legal side of this could help clarify.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:41 PM   #53
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Nowhere in the article does it say anything about the DOJ being part of any negotiations. Cereus just says they've submitted a plan to repay players to the DOJ...sounds to me like a classic ploy to shift the blame to DOJ...expect a Cereus press release in the future that says "sry, we submitted a plan to have you players repaid but the DOJ wouldn't get on board, too bad so sad gg."
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:58 PM   #54
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Bullits View Post
Blanca Games is being liquidated, the parent company of Cereus.
Has that been determined? Also, when you go to blancagames.com there is no mention of the bingo business. IIRC it mentioned them in the past. All I can find is this PR:

http://blancagames.com/news/blanca%2...eus%2Dnetwork/

Quote:
About Blanca Games, Inc. Stuart Gordon established Blanca Games, Inc. for the purposes, among others, of making acquisitions in the online gaming industry, including the purchase of the Cereus Poker Network. Mr. Gordon is the CEO of Blanca and is a pioneer in the online gaming industry. He is also the founder and operator of bingomania.com and Helix Gaming International, Ltd,
He is the founder and operator of thos companies, but this seems to imply Blanca Games is not. There is nothing about any other gaming site on Blancagames.com except for Cereus.

Quote:
Doesn't the DoJ's involvement make this situation much different from the above mentioned?
It could go either way. Either the feds say all of the money is theirs because they demanded more than all of the assets combined in the civil suit. It could also go the direction that the feds receive pressure to release the seized funds in return for the guarantee that it is used to pay players. It is a complex situation that is possible will take months to find the DOJ's position/involvement.

The entire liquidation will likely take years. Precedent in online gaming bankruptcies is that four years is a good number. Tusk has never paid from about that long ago, Eurolinx has not from over 2 years ago. BetOnSports, that did have the feds involved, took about 4 years and paid less than 5 cents on the dollar.

Edit: I was typing while Ike was typing, basically we agree.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:58 PM   #55
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
Nowhere in the article does it say anything about the DOJ being part of any negotiations. Cereus just says they've submitted a plan to repay players to the DOJ...sounds to me like a classic ploy to shift the blame to DOJ...expect a Cereus press release in the future that says "sry, we submitted a plan to have you players repaid but the DOJ wouldn't get on board, too bad so sad gg."
http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/...ns-doj-586888/

"The Absolute Poker spokesperson told PocketFives in an exclusive statement, “As previously stated, the distribution of funds to our U.S. players remains our highest priority. However, we are still in discussions with the DOJ in order to facilitate player payments and, consequently, can make no further comments at this time. We will provide an update at the appropriate time.”"
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:14 AM   #56
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Has that been determined? Also, when you go to blancagames.com there is no mention of the bingo business. IIRC it mentioned them in the past.
From the KGC statement:

"Over the past several weeks, we were advised of a potential solution prepared by Blanca and its representatives, establishing a process to liquidate Blanca’s assets and distribute proceeds to players. We understand that this process has been presented to SDNY for consideration and approval."

Last edited by 3 Bullits; 10-29-2011 at 12:19 AM. Reason: stronger source
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:15 AM   #57
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by LT22 View Post
http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/...ns-doj-586888/

"The Absolute Poker spokesperson told PocketFives in an exclusive statement, “As previously stated, the distribution of funds to our U.S. players remains our highest priority. However, we are still in discussions with the DOJ in order to facilitate player payments and, consequently, can make no further comments at this time. We will provide an update at the appropriate time.”"
Classic lawyer wordsmithing, I'm afraid. Does not state that they're in discussions with the DOJ about or in regards to player repayment. They could be in discussions with the DOJ about saving their own hide (i.e. settling civil suits, paying fines, whatever) with some aspirational goal of turning to the issue of player repayment later, and the statement above would still be factually correct; I promise you that every word of it was chosen very, very carefully. No point in belaboring semantics here...I'm just super bearish on the situations, sorry.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:19 AM   #58
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
Classic lawyer wordsmithing, I'm afraid. Does not state that they're in discussions with the DOJ about or in regards to player repayment. They could be in discussions with the DOJ about saving their own hide (i.e. settling civil suits, paying fines, whatever) with some aspirational goal of turning to the issue of player repayment later, and the statement above would still be factually correct; I promise you that every word of it was chosen very, very carefully. No point in belaboring semantics here...I'm just super bearish on the situations, sorry.
right, no statement from any company since April 15th has been definitive

I have written the Cereus balance off in my head and will be happy with whatever we can get (I'm guessing it won't be much, but some ppl seem to think Bianca is worth quite a bit)
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:30 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LT22 View Post
However, we are still in discussions with the DOJ in order to facilitate player payments
Worded perfectly to deceive
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:36 AM   #60
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingo View Post
I liked the old ub software pre cereus better then post cereus Absolute software. The old UB software is ClubWPT?
Are you cereus? The new platform was way better in actuality it's better than any site out there plus to say that it hardly lags at least for me and the disconnects was minimal at best, try to get that on Bodog, cake etc etc!!
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:53 AM   #61
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Blanca only owns Cereus AFAIK, it was setup just to be another shell for them

Stuart Gordon's bingo companies are completely seperate.

Assets to be liquidated would consist of the poker client and any IT equipment they own
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:14 AM   #62
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by the1macdaddy View Post
If UB pays out before FT; then there is something wrong with the world
clearly this is the best available evidence
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:19 AM   #63
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by WutRUTryin2Hit View Post
I cannot imagine how the ClubWPT software could possibly be worth even REMOTELY close to $40million. That is a bizarre number to throw out.
Yeah, wtf?
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:26 AM   #64
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgebushda3rd View Post
Are you cereus? The new platform was way better in actuality it's better than any site out there plus to say that it hardly lags at least for me and the disconnects was minimal at best, try to get that on Bodog, cake etc etc!!
......or Party. As I now play fulltime on Party, I can really appreciate how good UB/Cereus software is as I got more disconnections in the first few days on Party than in 5 years on UB. I preferred UBs to FT but rarely played on Stars enough to compare.
Regarding the statement I'll leave that to guys a lot more legally minded than me who already posted but it makes very interesting reading all your analysis.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:46 AM   #65
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

lego.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:54 AM   #66
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

This liquidation, like everything else with UB, will be a sham and a joke.

Don't count your money just yet.
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:17 AM   #67
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

what's 5c adjusted for inflation over 4 years?
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:57 AM   #68
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Assuming no one itt is an insider, here are some facts:

1. Ub had 5-6m of players' funds on hand
2. They owe 50-60m to players
3. Nobody itt knows how much was frozen by the DOJ
4. Nobody itt knows what all of their assets are or their value

Even if they come up with just 4-7m from frozen funds, assets, etc., that is roughly 20% of the total they owe players. I have no idea how deals like this go down in regard to legal fees, bankruptcy, all that jive, and I may be very wrong here. Common sense tells me we'll get a MINIMUM of 15-20%.

I know some of you just don't want to get your hopes up(understandable), and some of you are just hateful trolls with little to no money on the site. But if you've been reading the forums daily since BF, how the heck can you not be even a little uplifted by the most promising news since Stars announced payouts?
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:28 AM   #69
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by Onchan View Post
Dear Guys I Bought Cereus Rolls From,

Hope you enjoyed the cash. Get ready to pay up... eventually.

Sincerely,

Onchan

PS I feel like Tony G after winning his 5:1 ITM bet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onchan View Post
Nobody is really selling at that price... They claim to be willing to sell but when it comes down to it they push for 20-25. Also buying at 10 is risky as your risk of default is huge.
So you have gone from jumping up and down celebrating that you are going to get paid out to telling someone that buying at ten cents on the dollar is a poor idea. If you are getting paid out at anywhere near face value, buying at ten cents on the dollar has to be a good idea.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:42 AM   #70
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

Quote:
Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
Nowhere in the article does it say anything about the DOJ being part of any negotiations. Cereus just says they've submitted a plan to repay players to the DOJ...sounds to me like a classic ploy to shift the blame to DOJ...expect a Cereus press release in the future that says "sry, we submitted a plan to have you players repaid but the DOJ wouldn't get on board, too bad so sad gg."
Teddys a wise man
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:46 AM   #71
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

but like the posts that popped up offering cash for balances after black friday following random new posters would claim to be an employee or "insider" and state how bad it looks or no way getting paid for obvious drumming the price down... i mean it is what it is... you make money by buying as low as you can then selling as hi as you can sell.... it's just the great rat race in action is all... many company's have done this : releasing bad info that might be true but leaking it to bring the price of a company down below its actual worth.... then scoop it up when its dirt cheap for guaranteed profits (think phil ivey and the phantom lol lawsuit/image saving/ wihle all along his buddies/him were in talks to buy ftp (genius really))
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:43 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1 View Post
So you have gone from jumping up and down celebrating that you are going to get paid out to telling someone that buying at ten cents on the dollar is a poor idea. If you are getting paid out at anywhere near face value, buying at ten cents on the dollar has to be a good idea.
Yes I think 10c on the dollar is good value. Perhaps I was not clear... I don't mean the "risk" of Cereus not paying, I mean the risk of the player who made the deal not paying when they get their cashout!

That's why 10c deals are tough... Easy for the seller to get sellers remorse and stiff you, especially if they suspect you had insider info. It is not a straight EV deal.

At 20c it's a little less likely this will happen. That's why I urge caution before snapping up a 10c deal. Anyone willing to sell at that level is desperate for the money. And desperate people do desperate things, especially when a guy has already blown the grand and now has a check for 10k in his hand.
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Old 10-29-2011, 08:47 AM   #73
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In fact, the type of deals I recommend are ones where you get only the backend.

E.g you could buy the last 50% of the balance. If player gets 40%, he keeps it. If player gets 60%, you get 10% and he gets 50%. If the player gets 100% then you both get 50%.

I'd set the price for a backend deal like this at about 1/2% of the total balance.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:43 AM   #74
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
BetOnSports, that did have the feds involved, took about 4 years and paid less than 5 cents on the dollar.
BetOnSports actually took 5 years. They were shut down in the summer of 2006, and payments went out last June.

Interestingly, in the BOS case the US government had seized more than enough money to pay back BOS players. The liquidators felt the players might have a legal right to this money, but the government disagreeed. The liquidators considered pursuing it legally in the US, but decided against it due to cost and risk. Hence only 4-5 cents on the dollar.

How much money players will get back will depend on what happens with all the money that has been seized. In the BOS case, the US government kept all of it. Let's hope they decide differently this time.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:37 AM   #75
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Re: Cereus Plans to Liquidate Assets, Repay Players

I know this is NVG where speculation runs wild, but all of us with $$ on the site should be encouraged that there is a chance we get anything back as I think most of us had completely written it all off. I would love to get 20% of my money back, we get anything more than that, it's gravy.

That being said, my $.02 worth of speculation is that I would imagine the DOJ penalties would be less if players are paid back. I also do not know about the propriety of the government seizing funds before players get paid back. Remember, we were not doing anything illegal by playing on the sites or having our money on there. So seizing player funds would seem to me to be an unlawful seizure of our property by the government.
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