Such a bizarre allegation. Maybe projecting?

People would definitely care too, and not just the sexist brigade who want to attack any woman who plays poker.

As a person who staked many people before and not knowing both staker or stakee in person, in my opinion Chad is correct %100 and Cate is a thief basically not repaying the 1300$ and a bad stakee for leaving the stake in this fashion.

I hope you get paid at least some of the money she owes you. If you have some connections try getting her blacklisted from casinos she is likely to play. Anyone defending the lady in this topic is unreasonable and has no clue about how poker business works. I doubt Chad(cant say %100 of course) staked her to get laid with her, that makes no sense from a business perspective.

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Obviously she needs to pay back the 1300 if she plans to not continue playing poker which is clearly the case - if she ever wants to play again she has to contact the backer and he has first rights to her action to recoup the makeup and can provide a new bankroll at that time

Imo she doesn't owe the makeup IF she doesn't return to poker but has to grind it off or buy out if she ever plans to play a hand of poker again, but she does need to return the $1300 bankroll regardless or it's just stealing. You can't both quit poker and keep the remaining bankroll.

the 1300 shouldn't even be a part of this conversation lol

she could/should have shipped that back to him via any payment method immediately

Her even disputing or refusing to pay the $1.3k speaks volumes about this whole ordeal. Clearly she looked at this staking opportunity as a pure freeroll and when it didn't go well shes over it and wants to "quit" poker to not owe anything. I'm sure she will be back playing poker at some point whether it be live, home games or online under new screen names since there is not much Chad can do about that. Plenty of people tank staking deals or say they are quitting and then back playing soon after to get rid of their make up which is really scummy.

It's so weird because $1300 is just not a large sum of money at all - even if Cate Hall is completely busto and done with poker it's such a trivial sum to jeopardize your name over especially for someone with her skillset/ability to make money outside the poker world. It feels like if she intended to scam people outright it could have been for a sum 20 times that number or more so it makes no sense.

I actually thought Cate was in the right in this dispute (although obviously a ****ty horse) if she's actually done with poker and never plays again/gives first rights of action to the backer or buys out if she ever returns but obviously that involves returning the stake bankroll and not returning the stake bankroll funds at this point when it's clear her intention is to be done with poker is just theft - if she returns the bankroll that should be the end of the matter unless she ever returns to poker, it's so weird not to especially for such a trivial sum of money, I find it inconceivable that she couldn't borrow $1300 from a friend to repay it even if she didn't have any money right now.

There's a fair chance she owes lots of money to lots of people.

If you view it through the eyes of a paranoid huffing lawyer, it's likely she views holding the $1300 as proof she's still on the stake and thus doesn't owe Chad the losses. If she were to give the $1300 back it could look like quitting the stake. I doubt Chad views it that way at all but I can see the thought process. She may not intend to ever play again, but if she's still holding stake money she may feel she doesn't owe any of the losses, and maybe hopes Chad demanding that $1300 back would be proof of him dropping her and freeing her.

Is she disputing that she still has $1300? Has Chad explicitly asked for it back?

I have proof of it because all of our transactions are logged. She said something along the lines of "I'll do some accounting and get back to you."

Speculation like this doesn't help anyone imo. Let's stick to the facts.

I apologize for the long post. I've been on Guanaja for a month with no internet and just got back and read this thing straight through. I find this very interesting. Staking in live games, the attention this is getting, and the over all drama that follows these two. The link to the other situation with the head rubbing had me rolling.

I am more sympathetic to the staker than the stakee but not without some understanding for what appears to be going on with her.

About me: I'm not really good at poker. Probably a slight winner at 1\2 but with less than 3000 hours live experience. I used to be a counselor. Left that job at 40 and now raise chickens and garden. I've used every drug that has passed before my eyes at least once. With the exception of ketamine and heroin. I passed for reasons that are obvious to non drug users. However I specifically avoided these as I think they are the worst drugs a person can get into. Well, and meth too.

My family is currently "intervening" with my cousin who has a major ketamine problem. He has spent somewhere around 100k on it in the past year. It has done some pretty significant damage to his mental state to say the least.

I have also been backed in some 2\5 & 5\10 games. Mostly as a nit-seat filler for a guy who had a small piece of the games or at casinos when it was impossible for me to play otherwise. Part of my job was protecting my backer. He can degen pretty bad and I'm one of the few who can talk him down.

I think the attention this gets has as much to do with politics as anything else. There are very few of us that speak openly about how both sides of the aisle are lying scum. Most online rhetoric is about attacking "the other side" and that just feeds this false left-right paradigm we are stuck in. If you are slightly conservative it's not hard to hate the CHs of the world. Just like someone who is slightly liberal would not have a hard time hating on someone like Dentale. Neither person has to be overtly political because each side goes so far it's disgusting.

She got attention because of that to begin with while running hot enough to stay on the radar. Obviously Power saw this and knew if she was just slightly good enough to win she would be a good investment. Not only good games but even getting rebates on bad calls.

I'll just list some thoughts because I feel like this kind of post may get me banned. I'm not real savvy.

1. Her drugs of choice are not physically addictive. She is consciously using things that are frying her brain. LSD was a good experience for me and I'm glad I did it. The first time. Every time after gets more dangerous. Especially as you get older.

2. Online v live cash game staking are two different beasts. You really can't look at one through the same lens as the other. Volume, data, and picking good spots seems way easier on line even tho live is way easier in general. I only say that for the basement dwellers. This is the internet.

3. These arbs suck. It's hard for me to believe these two connected people couldn't find better. I could drag 10 people out of underground games that would have done better.

4. While not comparable it is easy to say this looks like loan sharking in the poker world. However, most people that do desperate things don't plan for the worst case scenario. Poker players getting staked only expect to win. It would be interesting for me to see a study on the two. What percentage grind up and get out at least debt free? What percentage take a title loan and pay all of it and get out from under it on scedule?

5. The perception of who CH was\is makes this all seem so crazy. Going from being able to sell action in any game to just jumping on stake makes no sense. Well, unless she had to have the roll up front. I assume selling action gets sorted out after the fact.

6. It appears staking in live games has evolved. I think it's gotten worse for the horse since games are tougher and backers have adjusted. Most of my experiences were short term and some of them were situations with no make up. He put me in games I was likely to beat with my style or not get hurt enough to affect him. He was my Knish. He even let me work for him when I needed extra cash.

7. Bringing up slavery is insane. I'm guilty of it. I say crap like we are all slaves to the fed, irs, NASA etc. It's stupid when I say it too. Slaves are people who were grabbed up, shipped, beaten, raped, killed and if they survived worked long difficult decades for nothing. Get a grip.

8. As far as their situation ending, it seems like there is an obvious disconnect in what kind of things happen when these things end. If a stakee goes down a horrible path with drugs, depression or whatever and ends up on the street an ethical backer would not put the stress of the debt on them. If a person says I'm gonna go work as a manager for my dad's investment firm and give up poker for good, I would think an ethical person would honor the debt. Now, it seems CH is kinda on the fence. On one hand, claiming a mental crisis and on the other saying it's a bad deal for her. Common sense says you don't renegotiate terms when you are down 60k. You ain't got the hand in that situation. Power should have just said you're right, I'll just take 60% of you're action in all the games you were staked for. Now ship me my 36k. Or she should have offered playing the dumb blonde/purple and saying I didn't know the difference.

9. Living your life fighting with people and expressing every opinion that slips out of you're vent on the internet is not a recipe for happiness. Will I post this? Mixing in brain cell damaging lifestyle choices aint gonna make things better.

10. Jungleman is f'ing awesome.

I do not think your comment on LSD is correct, at least insofar as current clinical science is concerned.

Yes I am probably biased by my experiences and those I have witnessed who continued to use it. They (and me too probably) likely have other factors contributing to what I see as it's negative effects.

That being said, controlled scientific studies and usage are not the same as real world application. I would think she has a good, clean source, though. Her station in life is certainly better than mine.

The last time I did it I got it from some guitar player that rolled up in a Winnebago at a family bar I was managing looking for a gig. 2 hours later he was doing a set and I was calling my cousin to come relieve me because the burgers I was cooking were crawling off the grill.

The next day I had to tell my 72 year old uncle why his favorite nephew took acid while working at an old school gun & knife club. "You ain't got one, we will issue you one at the door."

Probably my 15th time over all but first one since my 20s.

FWIW, ketamine will likely be approved by the FDA to use for depression.

I don’t mean to derail or defend Cate’s drug use, which by her own admission has had some very definitely negative physiological/neurological impacts on her, and has also caused her to abandon her formerly atheist views. I do think that LSD, used occasionally and carefully, is not generally harmful. I don’t know a damn thing about using LSD, ketamine and nitrous at the same time, which is what she says she was chasing.

It's called candy striping.

any defence of Cate is ridiculous

Beat me to it. Not going to derail too much, but don't believe the hype wrt to LSD, all. Tis a glorious thing when done correctly.

Carry on.....

link to CH drug use post?

men have lost 100s of thousands over their lives to women,
its just in their blood and how the world works. nothing different here

People have been scammed by degens over and over. Nothing different here.

I did not read all of the post but what I did read, there is one word that I didn't see--contract.

When I first heard about things like backing, staking and selling pieces, I didn't like it, for two reasons:

1. It's a big fat lie for someone to say on TV that "John Doe just won a million dollars!" when in fact he owes at least 50% of that amount to backers.

2. When I got my first "big" win (final-tabling a micro stakes PokerStars tournament for 116 buy-ins) I decided right then that whenever I cashed, every dollar that I won would always be mine. I think that that was in 1985 and I have never regretted that decision.

Another thing that I have believed for a very long time is that one should never participate in a significant financial transaction without a written and notarized contract. I know that a lot of poker-based transactions are done informally and "among friends" but I think that's crazy. If it's a significant amount of money or exposure for you, get it in writing, period.

Well if she comes back is she still not in make up?

If she had been staked by a company rather than a person she could have been ****ed over in that arbitration.

I think chad power is taking the piss asking 60k imo. That's just me.

I'd give him his original investment back. That's all. She isn't obligated to tho. I would because I would want him to get his orig sum back.

No she isn't the healthiest nicest person. But there you go. That's poker. Prob a great lawyer tho.

I have a feeling both these individuals when backed into a corner decide to go into aggression over drive why it got kinda messy.

60k is his original investment