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Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million

04-30-2018 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
I was wondering this myself. I would ask him, but he has blocked me

If he hadn't been so deceptive about his ownership in the company (possibly in violation of FTC regs), maybe someone would have pointed this out to him by now.
His principles only matter if a dollar isn't to be made.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
04-30-2018 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPantz
So basically, Cary Katz is in bed with right wing extremists such as Gavin McGinnes (leader of the "Proud Boys")? That's not good.

DNegs is an investor? Does he know that Poker Go/CRTV is affiliated with Gavin McGinnes? I feel like he would lost his **** considering how political he is.
You are word-thinking. Gavin McGinnes is not an "extremist" or "right wing" (as if there is something wrong with that outside a safe-space) and the only Proud Boy I know who goes to their get-togethers is a Black Jamaican guy (I know white Jamaicans too) who says it's about "unapologetic masculinity in the age of soys" (his quote to me).

DNEGS connection to it sullies it more than anything else.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
04-30-2018 , 10:06 PM
Just to state what I trust is well understood by now, NVG is fiercely a "No Politics Zone" so posts wandering over into that territory will be removed without recourse.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
04-30-2018 , 10:29 PM
Meh. Not for NVG
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
04-30-2018 , 11:23 PM
"Poker Influencer of The Year" tho.

And the lack of investor disclosure by DNEGS while actively lobbying for Cary Katz (and using his position to try to turn people against Doug in the process) at American Poker Awards is sickening, but what else is new?

Maybe Cary should employ the services of "Bone Breaker Mike" to resolve the issue.

Last edited by dhubermex; 04-30-2018 at 11:33 PM.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-01-2018 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2ryan
a dude that made $100MM off screwing students with loans gets screwed on massive loans.

poetic justice
this, **** that guy
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-01-2018 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhubermex
"Poker Influencer of The Year" tho.
Sweet irony! He wouldn't beat the micros.

The poker awards are non-unifying and awkward. And not good awkward like Norm Macdonald.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-01-2018 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuma
Sweet irony! He wouldn't beat the micros.

The poker awards are non-unifying and awkward. And not good awkward like Norm Macdonald.


Norm Macdonald is the best kind of awkward!
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-04-2018 , 05:00 AM
I've been trying to delve into this situation to figure it out.

The fuzziest part involves the firing of Mark Steyn in February 2017.

Steyn himself is very talkative about the entire situation on his blog, but purposely avoids discussing WHY he was fired. I found that already to be suspicious.

The narrative I'm seeing is that "CRTV couldn't make the show happen, and then fired Steyn", but that doesn't seem to be true.

The show WAS happening for about a month.

But from what I can tell, it was a complete fail. Steyn just wasn't a good executive producer, and apparently he didn't treat a lot of the staff very well.

They also said he had a hard time keeping the show under budget, and there were some accusations that he was spending unnecessarily lavishly.

To me it appears that Katz and others at CRTV tried for a month to work with Steyn and see if he could get things going, but the show was a fiasco, and they canned him.

From my reading between the lines, it seemed that Steyn realized to some degree that he screwed up, and was probably willing to walk away from his 4-year contract with CRTV without suing them.

However, it seems that Katz took Steyn's failure and stubbornness personally, and decided to sue him for $10 million for breach of contract. This was a spite move.

At that point, Steyn countersued, and after the arbitration and subsequent legal machinations, Steyn ended up on top for $4 million.

Now, as others have pointed out, Katz seems he is so bitter toward Steyn that he'd rather destroy/bankrupt CRTV than pay out the $4 million.

It's possible that Katz was so angry because he personally recruited Steyn to CRTV, so it might have been an embarrassment to him when Steyn was such a nightmare.

Anyway, Katz should have just chalked it up to Steyn not being right for the job, and moved on. He picked a fight, lost, and now wants to go scorched earth in order to avoid allowing his opponent the victory. Pretty bad.

BTW, Katz changed his personal political allegiances on a dime in 2009, when Barack Obama threatened his college loan business model. Suddenly Katz, who had primarily given money to Democrats, became a staunch Republican.

Usually I think salon.com is biased trash, but I believe most of what they wrote here: https://www.salon.com/2017/03/04/con...s-web-tv-show/

So Katz was only a Republican of Opportunity in the first place -- not any kind of "patriot".
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-05-2018 , 09:52 PM
Fascinating analysis Kilo.

Despite their “political differences”, I guess DN and Katz were able to agree on one thing when they partnered up on pokergo - “More rake/interest is better for the players/students.”

And even though the American Poker Awards are not exactly the Oscars, I would hope DN wouldn’t lobby against Polk. Lobbying for your guy is one thing, but using his outsized influence in the poker community to lobby against someone is very disappointing to hear, if that was the case.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-06-2018 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound
Fascinating analysis Kilo.

Despite their “political differences”, I guess DN and Katz were able to agree on one thing when they partnered up on pokergo - “More rake/interest is better for the players/students.”

And even though the American Poker Awards are not exactly the Oscars, I would hope DN wouldn’t lobby against Polk. Lobbying for your guy is one thing, but using his outsized influence in the poker community to lobby against someone is very disappointing to hear, if that was the case.
The only people who care about the "American Poker Awards" are the people who are involved. That idea is top 3 worst right there with PokerGo and GPL. If only these guys would dump millions of dollars into something that wasn't completely ******ed..
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-06-2018 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhubermex
"Poker Influencer of The Year" tho.

And the lack of investor disclosure by DNEGS while actively lobbying for Cary Katz (and using his position to try to turn people against Doug in the process) at American Poker Awards is sickening, but what else is new?

Maybe Cary should employ the services of "Bone Breaker Mike" to resolve the issue.
Hi dhubermex:

When these poker awards first started, we told Alex Dreyfus that as long as people like Negreanu were there we had no interest in coming. So that’s why 2+2 does not participate in this event even though we hold no ill will towards the American Poker Awards themselves.

Best wishes,
Mason
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-06-2018 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound
Despite their “political differences”, I guess DN and Katz were able to agree on one thing when they partnered up on pokergo - “More rake/interest is better for the players/students.”
haha, I was so confused when I saw DN tweet about how Katz should win the award. This explains that!

Great post Kilo! I think that explains what happened. It'll be interesting to see what happens from here with CRTV and also PokerGo. I watched Louder with Crowder (a show on CRTV that has a free show on Thursdays) the other day and he is still promoting year long subscriptions to CRTV.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-06-2018 , 09:36 PM
Some of my friends that work at Poker Central were upset about my public and harsh criticisms of the company early on. In truth, one of the reasons the project bothered me was because I thought it might result in lots of good people suddenly finding themselves out of work.

I would love to be wrong about that, but unfortunately it's looking more imminent than ever. Even if this lawsuit gets withdrawn, it's clear that Cary Katz is mentally unstable and incompetent at running this sort of business.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSayre
Great post Kilo! I think that explains what happened. It'll be interesting to see what happens from here with CRTV and also PokerGo. I watched Louder with Crowder (a show on CRTV that has a free show on Thursdays) the other day and he is still promoting year long subscriptions to CRTV.
Thanks.

Like you, I am also a fan of Steven Crowder. I actually think the guy is really talented, and he produces surprisingly good stuff considering his relatively small staff and the fact that he puts out new content 4 days per week.

I don't think he has much of a choice regarding the CRTV situation right now. He got in bed with them, put nearly all of his eggs in their basket (since YouTube has mostly demonetized him), and now he has to hope he doesn't get screwed.

I have no idea how his compensation works, but I believe he probably gets a flat rate monthly salary, plus some kind of commission for each CRTV signup (which they track through the free mug people get for signing up through Crowder).

So yeah, if CRTV abruptly declares bankruptcy and stops sending Crowder those checks, there's gonna be a lot of pain in his operation.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 07:01 AM
i dont get the pokergo hate. whatever happens they at least produced quite a bit of content on their budget. just need to get Kirk on retainer and theyd have some sick material.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 11:27 AM
cliffs on mason dissociating with dn
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 11:29 AM
Mason figured out 25 years ago that DN was a weasel. Most everyone else eventually caught up.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 11:48 AM
Wow, it dates back to the RGP days? I thought it was a relatively recent feud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David123
i dont get the pokergo hate. whatever happens they at least produced quite a bit of content on their budget. just need to get Kirk on retainer and theyd have some sick material.
Having been one of the bigger PokerGo haters, I agree that they make very high quality content. The fluff shows are terrible, but PAD, SHRB, Masters, etc. are all excellent. Aside from technical struggles here and there, I don't think anyone has any complaints about production value.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 12:30 PM
Im too lazy to just sign up to pokergo once or twice per year and then see all shows, which is what one should do due to the fact of months like this where they produce di.ck all. So one effectively pays 10 dollars for absolutely nothing which is tilting.

I agree the fluff shows are worthless, i havent seen more than 1 of them tho, im just extrapolating.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 01:07 PM
For anyone who cares, I actually took the time to read the entire report/decision by the arbitrator. Actually was fairly interesting, and I learned some more.

First off, Steyn didn't win $4 million. A number of judgments were entered against CRTV, which added up to approximately $4 million.

These were:

1) $1.8 million + 9% interest (between February 2017 and whenever Steyn is paid) to Mark Steyn, for breach of contract. This was calculated because Steyn was to draw a $800k/year salary starting from July 31, 2016, and CRTV had no right to opt out of the contract until July 1, 2019. This meant they were on the hook for $2.4 million to Steyn, but $600k had already been paid to him, hence the $1.8 million figure.

2) Oak Hill Media, a third party company hired to help produce Steyn's show, was awarded $908,124 with that same 9% interest. This was a complicated calculation I won't bother getting into.

3) Attorney's fees of $1,012,729 were awarded to Steyn and Oak Hill for prevailing on this case. As usual, the lawyers got rich.

4) As a final kick in the ass to Katz, $76,575 was also awarded to Steyn to reimburse him for his share of what he paid the Arbitrator (lol).


Now... as far as what actually happened...

In short, both sides were at fault for the failure of the Mark Steyn show, but it seems that more of the fault was on CRTV's end.

Steyn was to be paid $800k/year to produce 200 daily shows per year of a minimum length of 48 minutes each (that's 4 shows per wekk, with two weeks of vacation). He was the one placed in charge of creating the content and overseeing its production.

However, CRTV was responsible for providing Steyn with an advanced, fully function, TV-quality set, as well as furnishing him a production team.

The problem involved the studio itself, based in Burlington, Vermont. By all accounts, the studio was beautiful and state-of-the-art.

Unfortunately, it was riddled with horrible technical bugs/issues, and was also way behind schedule on construction and implementation of planned features.

Both sides agree that CRTV lavishly spent on the studio, which was built from the ground up. Steyn was given a virtually unlimited budget for this. However, construction of the studio was way behind schedule.

Furthermore, Steyn took an approved trip to Europe over the summer of 2016, and CRTV hired Steyn an underling to manage staffing for the show while he was gone. That underling, recommended by Steyn and wooed away from Fox Business by Katz himself, was completely incompetent, and failed in all ways. That even caused further delays.

In October 2016, Katz realized that the planned Steyn show -- meant to be the centerpiece of CRTV -- had fail written all over it. He wrote an e-mail to CRTV executives advising them to get Steven Crowder (whose show had not transitioned to CRTV yet) ready to take over as a quick replacement, if things went south with Steyn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Katz
You need to speed up the development of this show we will need to get [Crowder] up and running fast if Steyn screws us. I hate to even
write that, but we have to be prepared for a worst case scenario.
The incomplete Burlington studio ended up being the main reason for the demise of the Mark Steyn show.

On November 29, 2016, the studio apparently still didn't have its flooring and lighting completed.

While they started to use it in December, it was inadequate for the production of a highly complex show like Steyn's. The multiple cameras were not fully installed, the advanced editing suite was constantly crashing and basically unusable, and an 80-inch, high definition monitor behind Steyn -- meant to be a focal point of the show -- was both incomplete and buggy. The monitor was meant to connect remote guests to the show and display various graphics, but it was a failure in both ways. The internet uplink did not work, and the monitor had a "flicker" which seemingly couldn't be corrected (lol).

The above stuff was all CRTV's fault, as they bore responsibility for everything here.

However, as I alluded to in my original analysis, Steyn was also no picnic. Apparently he was a jerk to everyone, communicated poorly, pissed off most of his staff, and just sucked all around at managing. He also was falling behind in producing the 4-days-per-week content.

Despite all of this, Katz still had respect for Steyn, and wanted everything to work. For reasons unknown, he never spoke with Steyn directly about any of these problems listed above (both on Steyn's end and CRTV's end), and instead relied upon middlemen to do all the talking back and forth. This led to some of the confusion as to what Steyn and Katz believed Steyn's actual role was.

The show took place for a month or so, but it sucked, and it was not at all what was planned. This was mostly due to the limitations of the Burlington studio, but also somewhat due to Steyn not really being right for the position of executive producer.

They finally had to fire him and give up on the show.

It appears that, as I mentioned, Steyn was probably willing to just chalk the whole thing up to a failed venture, and probably would have just walked away after the firing, despite being contractually owed another $1.8 million.

However, for whatever reason, Katz took the entire thing personally, somehow cast all the blame in his mind upon Steyn, felt betrayed, and filed that $10 million spite suit.

Steyn prevailed because of the Burlington studio situation. The contract stated that Steyn would be on the hook for the 200 shows per year once the studio was fully functional. It was clear that the studio was never fully functional, or anywhere close, even if it was technically usable to produce a simple, lower quality version of the show.

Therefore, Steyn beat the lawsuit, and then was awarded the damages stated above.

A final note, regarding Steven Crowder. Reading the entire report from the arbitrator really shed some light upon Crowder's situation, which always perplexed me.

Prior to 2017, Crowder produced content about once per week from a cheap studio (I think in his home), and didn't seem to have much of a budget or staff. When people would ask him to produce a daily show, he would respond with the hashtag #NeverDaily and swore that would absolutely never occur.

Then, in late 2016, he abruptly announced he would indeed go daily, and was introducing a subscription model called "Mug Club". (Prior to this, he was strictly providing free content on YouTube, and nothing else.)

It turned out that he had joined the CRTV lineup, and a "Mug Club" subscription was actually a CRTV subscription.

From that point, the budget of the show amazingly increased. They quickly had a nice, new studio. They were producing daily content. They were able to travel around the country at will. They had a bigger staff.

In 2018, they moved studios again, occupying an entire house converted into a radio studio. Over a month of construction took place to do this, and Crowder revealed a large editing room filled with a number of computers and new employees working at them. He also revealed that both of his parents were working for him.

I always wondered how Crowder was suddenly able to transition from moderately popular YouTube content creator to a high-quality daily show with 20 employees.

Now it appears that he was wooed by someone at CRTV, likely given a generous salary and an even more generous budget, and even allowed to hire his own parents.

I don't blame Crowder for jumping at this, but boy is he going to be screwed if CRTV falls apart.

Last edited by Kilowatt; 05-08-2018 at 01:13 PM.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 01:39 PM
Thanks so much for the recap & analysis in Posts #34 and #46, Kilowatt.

Your research sheds a lot more light on what has transpired.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-08-2018 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
I always wondered how Crowder was suddenly able to transition from moderately popular YouTube content creator to a high-quality daily show with 20 employees.

Now it appears that he was wooed by someone at CRTV, likely given a generous salary and an even more generous budget, and even allowed to hire his own parents.
Ive always wondered how many subscribers CRTV has? The price is the same as PokerGo ($99/annual, and I believe they also have a $10/month plan like PokerGo). I would assume there is a lot more expenses compared to PokerGo. It seems like Crowder got a lot more help from CRTV than what I realized (who I also always wondered how he was able to pay for all the employees that came on after he went to CRTV). Not to mentioned they have added a ton of shows after they initially launched.

I cant see how they have enough subscribers at $99/year to break even. Without knowing a lot about this kind of business, I could see PokerGo being more profitable than CRTV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt
I don't blame Crowder for jumping at this, but boy is he going to be screwed if CRTV falls apart.
Personally, I would like to see Crowder to somehow end up with The Daily Wire after all of this.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-19-2018 , 05:18 PM
There apparently was a hearing a few days ago. Via Mark Styen last week:

Quote:
This coming week, Thursday May 17th, Mark will be in Las Vegas - not, alas, to see Wayne Newton, but instead for a hearing at Clark County District Court to intervene in scofflaw Cary Katz's attempt to evade the consequences of CRTV's appalling lawsuit against Mark by self-suing his own company into pseudo-bankruptcy.

Even though he is in real-world terms both plaintiff and defendant, we doubt the seamy Katz will actually show up in court as either party. But Mark will be there, so for once what happens in Vegas won't stay in Vegas. As you know, CRTV has now re-sued Steyn for a mere $5 million on the grounds, inter alia, that this Song of the Week essay is grossly defamatory of Katz.

So tomorrow Mark will be announcing the results of our reader competition to find something actionable in it - in the first of what will be presumably (given his insatiable litigiousness) our annual Cary Katz Scofflaw Deadbeat Sleazebag Self-Suing Great Patriotic Bum Award.
Steyn has since written a few more entries on his website, and briefly mentions Katz a few times, but does not talk about what ended up happening at this hearing. I couldn't find any information about this.

Maybe I suck at searching. I don't know if this sort of thing is public record or not?
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote
05-20-2018 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
There apparently was a hearing a few days ago. Via Mark Styen last week:



Steyn has since written a few more entries on his website, and briefly mentions Katz a few times, but does not talk about what ended up happening at this hearing. I couldn't find any information about this.

Maybe I suck at searching. I don't know if this sort of thing is public record or not?
I couldnt find anything. Ive replied to some tweets from CRTV personalities wanting people to subscribe to CRTV, asking what would happen if CRTV goes bankrupt, but I havent gotten any responses.
Cary Katz is suing PokerGo's parent company for  million Quote

      
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