The angry old man who shows up every day and is constantly complaining about losing. I'm sure every casino has one. Excessive rake for sure.

Hi Jim:

Let's address some more of what you say

As I already stated, good games are the key. But how does a poker room go about getting good games? This will be addressed throughout the book.


My attitude towards straddles is different from this and there will be a chapter in the book on this subject. Also, I believe that a button straddle can sometimes be advantageous for an expert player and this has the effect of upsetting the proper balance of luck and skill that games need to thrive.

Again, providing the balance of luck and skill is kept intact. For example, if you have a $1-$2 no-limit game where everyone has to ante $20, I doubt that you would play but it might attract lots of gamblers.

Good point and I agree.

I agree.

You have a couple of issues here. First, I'm negative towards bad beat jackpots, and this will be explained in the book. Also, I don't quite agree that the game should be structured to promote maximum action. I can give examples of structure change in poker that increased the action but lowered that expert's win rate. The correct answer, in my opinion, is that games should be structured so that the proper balance of luck and skill is at a maximum, an that's a little different from what you're saying.

I agree but I don't see the small no-limit games playing like this.

While I agree that players should be nice looking at your phine is also commonplace. In addition, this does not seem like an issue that belongs in this book since it's not really related to how a cardroom is run.

Okay.

- Bomb pot promotions are great for the game because it encourages action. Big BBJs that are impossible to hit are not because the winner will most likely take that money out of play.

I don't have an opinion on bomb pots. To me they're probably a neutral promotion. But I do agree with your second point.

These will be addressed in the book with suggestions made.

Bad dealers, especially those who talk constantly are probably the no. 1 problem in most poker rooms. I routinely tell them to quit talking and pay attention to the game, and it's amazing how many people will defend them and of course the dealer will claim that he never makes an error.

Thanks for an excellent post. Some of what you address will also now be addressed in the book.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi monikrazy:

Thanks to this thread, the Table of Contents is already expanding.

I'm going to add this point to the chapter about how an adversarial relationship develops between management and players.

Some of this stuff requires a statistical explanation and people working on the floor of a poker room generally won't have the background to understand it.

I would be interested in a couple of examples if possible.

Yes, I've had this issue as well. A lot of times it's my opinion that the person you're talking to just wants to keep his job and the conversation that you're requesting can put stress in that area.

Another good post and I have added some of these points to the book.

Best wishes,
Mason

I agree that an effort needs to be made to find other games besides no-limit hold 'em

I think your Point #1 is wrong for limit hold' em.

I'm also negative on hosts, but it could be done right, and this will be addressed in the book.

Best wishes,
Mason

Is poker room management taught in any of the programs at UNLV, UNR, or the California university system ?

For my two cents the worst management long term is one that lets a recreational player feel taken advantage of, whether by regs, the structure of promotions, the amount of respect shown recreational players by dealers and staff, the conduct of the floor or in ANY other manner. In that vein, cross-promotion of sports themes with poker works well, it allows a rec player to combine two entertainment sources, while feeding the rake drop box. (I have seen "lucky Square promotions tied to sports, but do not recall ever seeing a giveaway of live action on concurrent sports events, I'd suggest that might work in a very cost effective way, by balancing the book action offered on a given game. It can be done in such a way to drive players to the book to cash winners, enlisting books' support for cross-promotion.)

A losing recreational player who felt entertained and respected will return more readily than one who feels unfairly treated. Recreational players are not stupid and recognize when a room is well run, friendly, even amongst regs.

The cardroom atmosphere MUST ensure that recreational players have an enjoyable time, especially since some regs in the games inevitably will come across as arrogant, abusive or just plain non-engaging nits.

Don't waste marketing money rewarding nit behavior, offer incentives only to players who give good action to recreational players ...... a no-nit zone, encourage/let the anti-social nits ply their self-centered trade somewhere else. . Nobody owes non-engaging nit players a living.

Good Gamble + Good Times = Good Recycling of Rec players,

Hi monki:

A number of people have said this but I don't see it in the cardrooms where I play.

Obviously, if a player is routinely being rude to other players, whether it's being rude to a female or a male, cardroom management should talk to that oerson and if necessary kick them out for a while.

I will address this in the "Going to Church" chapter which is about cardrooms where management goes overboard emphasizing good behavior.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi joejoe:

Yes, this happens a lot and I'm not a fan. But at least this form of rake does come back to the players.

I agree.

This is a good point. When a cardroom is doing well the manager is often concerned with things like having dealers in the right places and quickly starting new games when the list develops.

But when the room begins to struggle, a different set of skills is required to rebuild the games, and most managers just don't have these skills.Also, if they would have run their room right in the first place, the need to rebuild a struggling room might not be necessary.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi checkraisedraw:

Taking away the jackpot and taking away the jackpot fish, are not necessarily the same thing.

Best wishes,
Mason

To reiterate, no cardroom owes non-engaging nit players a living.

Some nits seem to feel that they have some entitlement to behave so as to shape the poker room experience to their benefit, at the cost of losing players having a good time playing. This bent is against the best interests of the cardroom operator.

OTOH, a recreational player typically does NOT mind losing in an entertaining game where he feels he gets a fair shake and is more likely to return, to be sheared multiple times over the years. He wants to play poker, and will rebuy once in a heartbeat if having a good time ....not necessarily winning at it.

Price minimum game buyins at 1/2 what your target rec player will feel ok about losing ....

Hi Reducto:

That's correct. Dealers have a job to do and paying full attention to the game is part of the job. It's also my opinion that talking dealers are probably the biggest problem that poker rooms have and we emphasized this in our book The Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook.

I don't agree with this point. Even in the smaller games, especially $1-$2 no-limit hold 'em there will be some players where the money at risk is very important to them, and if the dealer is busy socializing it's not fair to these people, especially given the high rakes that they are paying today.

If I was running the poker room and you decided to join in, you would be fired. It's not up to you to redefine your job description which should include paying close attention to the game and dealing in an efficient manner. (Of course when I say "fired" I'm talking only in the theoretical sens and am not criticizing you directly.)

I agree with this point and it'll be addressed in the book.

No scheme is perfect. But I suspect this rarely happens, especially in those rooms that feel they need to offer promotions.

I agree that having more chips in the racks is part of the solution. This will be addressed in the book.

I do use Bravo, and while it's often lacking I do find it helpful.

I've played at all levels of stakes, but recently, partly because of this book, I've only played in small limits. One of the chapters titled "Forgetting the Regular Customer" will address some of these issues.

This is a good point, but in some places the floor gets tipped quite well . However, I think this is more of a casino executive management problem that a poker room problem.

Best wishes,
Mason

Old-timer limit poker player that I am, I couldn't resist the invitation. I played in the very active floating charity poker games Toronto had in the early 90s (the scene out of which Negreanu emerged)--5/10 and 10/20 LHE. When it first started it was probably 99% male (and I recall an older man saying he couldn't stand the idea of having a woman at the table). Then, after a year or so, the Asians got into the game and there were frequently 2 or 3 women at the 10- (and sometimes 11-!) seat tables, damn good players most of them. After that I began to see more non-Asian women playing. (I was particularly fond of playing in the afternoons with an off-duty police woman who was seriously addicted and a steady provider.)

In 1993 and 95 I made some visits to Lake Charles, and I particularly recall one epic 17-hour 10-20-40 "river-boat" game that, for most of the night, had either two or three women at the table.

In the late 90s and early oughts I made some trips to Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg, where I spent evenings at their (again only limit) poker rooms. I recall many instances of tables with two or three women players.

The annual 6-week nofoldem August festival at the Toronto CNE (the only legal game in the city!) has, I think, become more male in recent years. (In the old days it was only limit but Ontario finally took the brakes off.) I'm not sure though. Last year (i.e. 2019; it didn't run in 2020) I only played once: a long session of 20-40 Omaha seated next to the only woman at the table; earlier in the evening I was at a very boring 1-2NL with either one or two women players.

My 8-handed 10-20 limit home game (now in its 35th year) has almost always had a female player, and for the last several years we've had two. (Alas we've recently lost one of them. Before they quit, we did have the classic problems that can arise from having a husband and a wife in the same game.)

A chapter dedicated to the privatization of high stakes seems appropriate. Game organizers holding the game in a poker room but not following the rules is “the bad”. Management not enforcing their own rules is outrageous.

One item seems to be overlooked is keeping the players at the table. Some clubs offer bet runners for races, and this should be looked into for sports. Poker is not the only way to gamble and people like the service. Most rooms have ample TVs showing multiple events so the setup is already there.

Hi NewAcctIsBest:

While I think this is harsh, dealers do need to understand that regular players who tip either little or not at all do help to start games and keep games going and from these games others will tip. So they do contribute to their living.

Also, if a dealer does say the types of things that you mention here, you should talk to poker room management about that particular dealer.

Best wishes,
Mason

Also by having a time charge instead of a rake, it will not affect proper strategy. It would also be interesting to hear what someone in the Pepermill management would say.

Best wishes,
Mason

PokerAtlas has a competing product.

Hi Punker:

This is trickier than you may realize. Some of those people in Bobby's Room may also be big casino customers. So while what you say is certainly true it may not be the whole story.

There will be a chapter in the book titled "Forgetting the Regular Customer."

Best wishes,
Mason

Your table of contents seems focused on issues that cause problems between players and poker room management. I would be interested in reading about issues that causes problems between poker room management and their bosses in the casino. My perception is that some of the stuff that poker rooms get wrong (and I am talking mainly from my experience playing outside of the Las Vegas and California rooms that you are most familiar with) is caused by poker room management having to implement things that they know are bad but are dictated by upper casino management that doesn't understand poker.

Hi Pokerpops:

I address some of this in the book excerpt that appear in Post #21

Your point about string bets is a good one. I'll try to mention it in the book.

There will be a chapter on "Consistent Decisions" where this will be mentioned.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi shaymalus:

Maybe. I've also known some floor people who were failed poker players and in some of these cases their attitude was negative towards those that won.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi borg:

While I agree with what you say, why should it be that way? If the poker room management emphasizes how the dealer should be professional at all times, perhaps what you suggest wouldn't be a solution.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi Nick:

Except that I remember when more women use to play, especially if the game was seven-card stud.

The environment might be true in some places but not in the rooms where I play here in Las Vegas. So I don't think that's the reason.

Okay.

Okay.

Perhaps. But the book will address other problems with prop players so I don't think this is the solution.

Now this makes some sense to me. It seems like with the rise of no-limit cash games, which feature those characteristics that you mention here, the percent of women playing has gone down.

I agree but this may be easier said than done. As mentioned above, I think that seven-card stud was a good game for women, but very few people want to play it today.

You should start another thread and see what response you get.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi AKyouwin:

I don't see how you get away from this except when there are must move games transfers from table to table are not allowed.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi 29:

I remember that as well. This is a good example of how poor promotions do hurt poker rooms.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi borg:

I don't think your last statement is true. Women did play limit games in the old days.

Best wishes,
Mason