Do you guys understand the difference between extrovert and introvert?

What is INTJ?

What is grafting?

Thanks.

He needs a new monitor for moar volume

Guys, I was out of the work force for years, spent 1 year at a car dealership making 50k and was offered either 80k or 125k+car (and much more hours, weekends) the next year. There are plenty of areas people can make a decent living w/o advanced degrees. The automotive business is definitely one of them. Pharmaceutical sales is another, really many types of sales jobs if you're willing to do that kind of work. Most jobs like that may require a BA, but no MBA or JD required. The automotive business is a meritocracy. Your resume doesn't matter nearly as much as whether or not you have charisma, can sell yourself, etc.

Maybe here. You're welcome?

Soo many factors involved though (who you know, people skills, likability, personality, work ethic, idiot tolerance, locality, country economy, luck in terms of landing a job you like/wokring with people you like/a role that matches your natural skillset). Its just not that easy for everyone depending on stuff like this... but your right... western automotive industry is very rewarding if you can get your foot in the door.

Its competitive. Life is competitive. But fairplay to you.

Also, technical professions are a good way to go, where you have an opportunity to open up your own practice seem more +ev currently as well, ie dentist, optician, make your own hours, employ others etc. Or just work 9-5 for someone elses practice.

Lastly, clearly answer to thread is NO unless your countries economy forces you into it OR you have the option to move to one of these countries if serious. /lockthread.

Thats fair enough but I think what you have accomplished is not that easy, I think you are selling yourself short a bit. I also think Sales is an area where charismatic, super confident people can be naturals at it.

I think this thread is too general in that there is a ridiculous amount of variables and different life situations people are in, its not just black and white.

Fair enough, I'm not going to pretend to know much about the American college grads prospects. More thinking from a European perspective but yeah I suppose computer science/engineering are the big payers now. In any case I've dropped out of college twice, have no degree and have never held down a job so I'm probably not qualified to have this discussion lol

i work in sales, have a BA only, and make over 6 figures. Sales has some of the highest earnings potential out there and i'd agree that you can break into it without a college degree. You just need a foot in the door, gain experience, and work your way up. Tough to argue numbers if you're good. Oh and that stuff called hard work. People forget about that part these days.

Would i trade my sales career to go pro? Yeah i would and because of the time it would give me. Time ends up being more valuable than money when it comes down to it. I'm also in the middle of doing this, but i'm also starting a small business.

I have too much of a conscience to go into sales. I can't lie to someone and try and sell them some crappy car I would never buy myself, or some pharmaceutical I really know nothing about that may give ppl cancer in 10 years.

That being said, at the poker table you know going in that people will lie to try and take your money. Everyone knows this is part of the game. So, in that case I am OK with it.

I don't know man. Maybe this is a reading comprehension fail on my part, but I don't understand your post at all.

I am very much driven. Mostly, I am driven to make money, which in my dictionary means freedom. Now, because I was unfortunate enough to be born in the united states, I have (had, thanks to poker) $265,000 in student loan debt. No scholarships, or rich parents. I chose to attend an ivy league school because I am driven, and want to make the most money possible.

When I graduated I did what makes me good at poker. I analyzed the situation at hand and made a decision that would yield me the highest return on my time, which means a lot to me.

I personally passed on several $150,000 + jobs to post here on 2p2 while 4 tabling mtt's, smoking a blunt, and hanging with my girl and dogs. Ill take this over anything else, but maybe that is just me.

my 2 pennies.

as some have stated, there is no pension, or benefits, or anything. save, save, save.

I get where your coming from, you don't want to invest time(12 hour days x 7days a week) starting out a business and then wein down the time investment in future. Easy life. Makes sense. No brainer.

But careerwise don't you end up value cutting yourself for a couple hundro 000's in the short term future? ie if people are offering you 150K+ at entry level... surely you just leverage the the hell out of suitors in future with a couple years experience?

Soz.. just curious..

My plan is to not have to rely on poker for ends meat by 35. I am 28 right now. I am being smart with my money and investing to achieve that.

if at all possible I never want to work for anyone, ever.

The only reason Im acutally thinking about becoming a Poker Pro is the possibility of making it big and making more than i would have in other areas, so i can basically retire some day when i feel like it.

I'm definetly not looking for playing poker for years and then getting another "job" for the rest of my life.

Guess i will just try playing and decide after some time if i really wanna do this.

it is possible

is it worth it?

no

You'll never make it if you have a "go big or go home" attitude about it. 99% of poker pros are guys you never heard of grinding low stakes cash games. They are very disciplined and super nitty about BRM.

Opening your own business and making it even a successful small business (say 5 milion ebita/year) is next level drive and committment to what it takes to learn to be a great poker player. Talent is talent.

But forget your own business, what makes you think you couldn't work and play cards. Seems like a waste if you're that good at poker, because there's endless more opportunity and money to be made outside of it and a whole life ahead. I don't like Hellmuth but the guy was a great business man for a period. Same for DN but still is. These things aren't mutally exclusive.

And I'll assume by what you're good at, you took economics.

Your comparison is quite flawed, here is why: When someone in sales tries to sell you something, whether it is a cable/internet package for your new home that you really need or a shamwow sponge that you really don't need, do you honestly think people don't realize they are being sold? Do you really think the prospective buyer doesn't grasp the idea that the seller is making a profit from the sale? As someone who counts/depends on poker for supplementary income, I certainly don't have a problem fleecing bad players out of the money they came to gamble with. But how is that morally different from someone trying to sell you something? Are you so thick that when you walk into a car dealership you don't 'know' they are trying to sell you something for profit? Maybe I'm overestimating the chances that you correctly process what happens when someone walks into a car dealership

Also, those new Acura MDX sure are deathtraps that I 'would never buy myself' so be careful lol. I don't disagree that making money from others playing poker isn't unconscionable. But please, get off your high horse just bc poker may be the profession you have chosen and that bias is the sole rationale behind your post. There are cheating poker players, just as there are scummy salespeople, just as there are evil priests who molest kids. Certain people may be acting immorally via their choice of profession (pimping children, terrorist recruiter, etc), but neither sales nor poker fits that category.

Your logic is lol bad and I'm pretty sure everyone that has read your post and then mine would agree. But if I'm wrong, then at least we have one more morally superior poker pro out there in the world, phew!

But yeah, good points by many itt that shows how different folks require different strokes in their professional lives to be happy. And that's pretty cool.

Do I think there are people that don't realize a salesperson is making a profit on the sale? Yes. I have never purchased a car from a dealer though, because I am not stupid. Would I be a good salesperson for say, classic Mustangs? You bet. Where can I find that job? I will take it. But I could not cold call people, even for a good cause. I am too polite to bother people. Some people, even if they are nice and personable, are not good at sales unless it's something they really believe in. You know as well as I do, some people are just not cut out for sales. I am one of those people.

I generally dislike other human beings. That's why I am a good salesman at the poker table, but would be bad at an actual sales job.

I have actually never even made a car payment in my life. If I can't afford the car I want, I buy a cheaper car and fix it up. I have owned a 69 Mustang, 66 Galaxie convertible, 95 Jeep Wrangler, and more. Right now I have TWO 1965 Mercury Marauders. One is for sale, actually.

No, it's impossibru

Dream numbers here in Finland, here its almost impossible to get that good money by working hard. Then again I think we work less hours. And if we do work much overtime, the taxes on that money will sky rocket.

100% agree that many aren't cut out for sales (and even fewer have skill set to succeed as poker pro) and so other paths must be taken to achieve satisfaction. I chose an 80k job instead of the 125k position to maintain some semblance of independence to play poker PT, as the extra time and freedom is quite desirable. But I sincerely don't understand why buying/leasing new car from dealership (the only way to obtain a new car) is stupid. Is it buying a new car that is dumb? I'd consider myself an authority on the business and I've yet to hear that point of view, even from industry consumer advocates. There are plenty of reasons to buy pre-owned via private party (cheaper, less red tape, possibly less stressful environment), but that comes at a price (less recourse buying private party when sold a lemon, guarantee private owner hasn't fully reconditioned car to extent of dealership). So there doesn't seem to be a clear-cut answer to that one ime, just individual preferences.

There have been many times where I have used skills acquired on the felt or at the dealership to my benefit in the alternative sphere. I think many poker players would be excellent salespeople (Negreanu could sell water to a well) or even in management (analytics and software used to optimize performance of dealership similar to the way an online poker player utilizes their HUD or the way a trader invests).

As far as OP and others are concerned, there's no reason playing poker for income and working can't be done simultaneously. So maybe poker as sole source of income might not be right for everybody, I'd never recommend any poker player to stop playing just bc they have a job, unless they don't enjoy playing poker anymore.

edit: I understand your personal preference re not buying car from dealership after reading last post, derail/

Many people see buying and owning a car as an expense, and I get that. I see buying a car as an investment.

Also, a dealership is not the only way to buy a new car. In 1989 my Mom wanted a new Miata. She was going to buy one from the dealer, but I found her a broker and saved her like $5k ? I was 19 years old. She got the color she wanted, with AC, bank handled the loan. I don't know what her total payments had to add up to, she now owns the car free and clear, but it had to be at least $50K.

But she had the first Miata in town. Broker was quick to make the sale and got us the car before delivery at the local Mazda dealership.

Car has 137k miles on it. Been wrecked and rebuilt. Looks nice though, drives good. Period Yamaha pull out cassette deck. Worth maybe $2500.

Most poker players are people who either have or in the future can have access to a college education.

I'm not denigrating people who work for minimum wage but people who have access to college education and are willing to commit themselves to their work will on average do pretty well. It's true that people who are not focused on their work will often see poor results but people who play poker without focus can lose money - that can never happen in most jobs. Also a starting salary is just that - a starting number - and doesn't mean that much in the long run. Your salary will generally grow as your experience increases, the same is usually less true of poker, which everyone admits is getting more difficult by the day.