Stars and FTP also got the same deal. They never agreed to release the frozen accounts. The only difference in this case is the return of domain names.

I know but when you read the statement from Cereus,

“Absolute Poker has reached an agreement with the United States Attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York (“SDNY”). Under the agreement, the US Attorney’s Office has agreed to provide all necessary assurances that third parties may work with Absolute Poker to facilitate the return of funds, currently held by third party processors, to players located in the US. This provision is an important step to returning US player funds.

I viewed that statement as Cereus would be able to payout players with the frozen funds.

No no no no no no and no. I've lost count of how many chances they've had. I've had enough of them. They are scum. Cancer. Duke. Hellmuth. Sebok. Leggett. Hamilton. Masouri. Friedman. All scumbags, representing a scumbag company.

I hope that this board is active in investigating any new dealings the Cereus team have. This board seems to be the only thing we have against these complete and utter scumbags. They must die. (Financially)

Did I mention they are all scumbags?

No no no no no no and no. I've lost count of how many chances they've had. I've had enough of them. I had enough of them a long, long time ago. They are scum. Cancer. Duke. Hellmuth. Sebok. Leggett. Hamilton. Masouri. Friedman. All scumbags, representing a scumbag company. (To be fair I think Hellmuth is just a dork, maybe not a scumbag)

I hope that this board is active in investigating any new dealings the Cereus team have. This board seems to be the only thing we have against these complete and utter scumbags. They must die. (Financially)

Did I mention they are all scumbags?

Do you understand the dictionary meaning of assume/assumption? I mean it's easy to start posting girly icons or whatever you call them.

IIRC that is what Elevengrover was saying on QJ earlier, all it does is allow Cereus to pay people.

Just because you say something is an assumption doesn't excuse the stupidity of said assumption.

That statement you are referencing above has been changed. Look here; http://jgarywise.com/2011/05/revised-ap-statement/

Sure, like I mentioned in my post you are welcome to troll me.

Yes, here's what happened:

Random guy makes unprovable claim on the internet.

You admit you don't know if this claim is true.

You proceed to assume this claim is true to make a point that you know nothing about, and then at the end you say "but I dunno so troll me."

Here's what I think. If you don't know anything,

hint:

then don't spend your time making up useless conjecture that somebody else has to read. People reading this thread are looking for facts, not baseless theories taken from some random guy who posted on the internet.

lol, Since when did these forums get obsessed with facts? Did I miss the memo?

So all your posts in this thread are facts? They are not opinions? I made a post based on the information I have. If you have a problem with that, you know what to do.

Also, no matter how badly that organization was run, it is hard for believe for me to believe they are not sitting on at least 15 million in cash.

Which makes your assumption based on random internet poster even MORE ******ED.

Excellent rebuttal. I like how you respond with more nonsense instead of actually trying to understand what that person is saying. Next time you are ready to hit the submit button, just go back and read what you wrote and maybe just maybe you'll understand how stupid you look, not to mention your irritating icons.

Seriously, If you don't like something just move on I'm sure you will find other forums where you can make expert use of your icon skills. Just for the record, when I said troll I was actually looking for posters who were willing to offer a different viewpoint.

I haven't seen the actual text of the agreement, just the DoJ press release, but from that I can say with Absolute and Ultimate confidence that it is not at all the same agreement as the ones made with Stars and Full Tilt. Those two agreements expressly provided for the use of the .com domain names to provide online poker to non-US players and to facilitate cashouts to US players.

The ability to use .com addresses to serve their non-US markets is huge, especialy for Tilt, given the problem people were reporting updating their software when the .com site was seized.

It looks like all that AP got was the ability to tell processors "its OK, the DoJ says you are allowed to transfer money from us to US individuals." In return it seems like they will have to allow a bunch of accountants through all their files (which should be interesting).

One obvious reason they haven't been paying non-US players quickly is that no remaining payment processors would touch them. This agreement would seem to address that problem for both US and non-US players. However, it is easy to believe that the slow payout rate for non-US players points to a problem getting their hands on cash. This could mean that they don't have assets, or that the assets they have are not liquid. If they don't have the assets, it could be because they were seized, or because they didn't have them before the seizures.

Tilt made their deal weeks ago, which should have solved the same problem for them, but still haven't paid US players. They seem to be paying out non-US players now, after some hiccups. Do they have the money for the US players?

So what's in this deal for AP? The difficulty they are having paying out non-US customers may be a clue. Perhaps the real purpose in getting the deal was to facilitate paying out non-US players, to improve confidence in the non-US market. Not wanting to save the .com domains to facilitate paying out US customers doesn't speak strongly for their desire to make US refunds. OTOH, how can they think they will significantly boost non-US confidence if they stiff the (roughly) 80% of their current customers who are from the US? Well, they have fooled their customers before.

thank you hdbets for taking the time to write those cliff notes... greatly appreciated.

Here is Beattrice/_kingo_ theory about online poker. Of the say 5,000-10,000 that played on Cereus pre Black Friday, 500 at most were winners/grinders making a living playing. With that said, it is the winners which includes me who are real concerned about their money and not being able to cashout.
But really for the majority of the players nonUS $500 week is more then sufficient to cover their needs short term. $500 on both sites is really $1000 week. The majority which consists of losers only wish they have cashed out $500 playing poker. Hell most losers dont cash out but 1 or 2 x year at best. They are depositers not withdrawers.

If I ran a business that was on the edge of insolvency and I could possible save my business by restricting meaningful cashouts for my 5-10% minority while satisfying the short term needs of my 90-95% majority, I think it would be good idea to do this.
I realize alot of the posters are part of the winning population but this is a forum for players who are serious about poker, not the casual recreational fish who make up the majority of all poker sites.

My other simple conclusion is Cereus wouldnt bother scaling down staff, hiring a high power lawfirm, processing $500 payments if they were cutting and running. Short term this has been horrible but in real life time it is still less then a month, cashouts are going on and I believe US players are going to get paid.

If and when they do, what negative spin will the haters have on the payouts?

I'm not sure. It would seem to make sense that they could have got their .com domain back in the agreement without giving up anything extra (as Stars and Tilt did). .com has obvious value around the world, not just in the US. The only reason that I can currently think of why they wouldn't want to do that is if they think it's likely that the DoJ would pull it again in the future (which would cause more shock/panic than leaving it seized). That would infer they don't plan on playing ball with the DoJ. Of course, if that's the case then there would have to be an ulterior motive to this agreement. I don't really see how if helps them pay-out non-US customers, it doesn't appear as if MB/Neteller/whoever are refusing to do business with them, but there could obviously be factors we don't know about.

can non us players deposit?

Yes, I could as I had to depo first to be able to use neteller to cash out on AP.

While I try to stay positive about everyone getting paid, especially those with large sums, I just can't see how Cereus will be able to stay afloat. Pre BF, there peak daily traffic was around 3,000 players.

Currently, it's down to around 600 with US players still able to log in and play at real money tables. Hopefully, they have a secret stash of cash and are able to pay the US players.

Otherwise, they'll be done. No non-US player will continue to play there unless they have to earn rake to withdraw their current rolls.

thats bollocks ^^

"Pre BF, there peak daily traffic was around 3,000 players"

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. I may be wrong but I think it was considerably higher pre BF. My client says there are currently 9300+ players. Although maybe most of those people are playing free games.

You likely know more than I do so please correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, you are wrong.

I think that's a 7-day moving average. The daily peak was averaging over 3K before BF, and now the daily peak is about 600.

http://www.pokerscout.com/SiteDetail...us&ab=39648088