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Old 08-06-2015, 11:16 AM   #1
TChan
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Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

The purpose of this thread is a call to action for the poker players of 2+2 to nominate Isai Scheinberg for the Poker Hall of Fame.

The WSOP tweeted this from its account yesterday:

“We need your help! Tell us who should be considered for Poker Hall of Fame induction: http://www.wsop.com/2015/POKERHALLOFFAME/"

In my opinion, if the man who has done more to grow poker than any other individual in the world in the past 20 years (at least) is not in the Poker HOF, it is illegitimate.

You all know the story. Poker was a niche game before the “Moneymaker Boom”, and PokerStars was one of the largest driving forces in the Moneymaker boom. The growth in the main event field following Moneymaker’s win was unprecedented. PokerStars expanded into, and created, brand new markets where there were very few poker players. Prior to 2003 there was very little poker played in much of continental Europe, South America, Asia, and Australia. We have all benefitted from the company that this man built. Some people reading this made played online poker professionally, or made good money as serious semi-pros. Some made careers out of the poker industry in various ways (journalism, television, or working in b&m poker rooms). But millions of others simply found a way to play a game they found enjoyable; a place where they could play any time, anywhere (until 2011), across myriad stakes, on an enjoyable software platform run by an attentive and professional team.

Yes, I know there are political reasons why he “won’t”. Caesars does not want to bring attention to PokerStars. Doyle’s friends take precedent. And so on. (I don’t agree that it is the case, by the way, that animosity/conflict between Caesars/CIE and Stars/Amaya would preclude them from accepting Isai.)

But we know serious poker fans and poker players agree that he belongs. The original WSOP tweet got 4 favorites. My tweet calling for Isai to be nominated got 36 favorites. WSOP has 32 times more followers than I do. Nine times as many favourites for an account with 1/32nd the following. You might argue the “average poker fan” does not know who Isai Scheinberg is. That may or may not be true. But if that’s the case, it’s time to let them know.

I suspect here I’m preaching to the choir to some extent, so I’ll wrap it up here. It is well and good to tweet, post on 2+2, and so on, but us poker players often have a reputation of outrage without action. So if you agree with this post, click on the link, fill out the form, and nominate Isai. Let’s flood wsop.com with Isai nomination ballots, and see if they have the balls to once again ignore a man who has lined their own pockets with millions.

http://www.wsop.com/2015/POKERHALLOFFAME/

Last edited by Mike Haven; 08-06-2015 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Fixed link
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:38 AM   #2
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

+i want million
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:41 AM   #3
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by TChan View Post

In my opinion, if the man who has done more to grow poker than any other individual in the world in the past 20 years (at least) is not in the Poker HOF, it is illegitimate.



Yes, I know there are political reasons why he “won’t”.

Terrance,

I agree strongly in both of your points above. other political complications include any pending case against Isai from US Govt (don't know status of that)

That being said, I just sent in my vote for Isai. He built a world classs business and although made a "ship load" of money from poker players, seemed to do it in a way that genuinely cared about the players and the poker market ( well , except for the doomswitch technology he added to software in 2008 )

Last edited by PTLou; 08-06-2015 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:52 AM   #4
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by TChan View Post
Yes, I know there are political reasons why he “won’t”. Caesars does not want to bring attention to PokerStars. Doyle’s friends take precedent. And so on. (I don’t agree that it is the case, by the way, that animosity/conflict between Caesars/CIE and Stars/Amaya would preclude them from accepting Isai.)
I think there's plenty of evidence that this is the case. If you ever want to see Isai get in, you should be petitioning the WSOP to be transparent about the Hall of Fame process.

The 10 candidates on the ballot are selected by a "governing council". We don't know who they are or how they select the nominees. There is no reason to believe that fan submissions for this online ballot make any difference.

Once the secret council shapes the ballot, we don't know who most of the actual voters are. Once they vote, nobody knows what the count is. Not even the voters themselves.

Until this opaque system changes, Isai is never ever ever getting in, no matter how much you pester Jack and Seth on Twitter. Your ballots are going straight to the trash bin.

Last edited by SrslySirius; 08-06-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:38 PM   #5
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Quote:
Nominations are now open for determining the 2015 Poker Hall of Fame inductees. Nominations will be accepted online and fans are encouraged to participate by submitting their nominee along with a brief explanation. All submissions will be tabulated and the top 10 nominations will be reviewed by the Poker Hall of Fame Governing Council. The existing Poker Hall of Fame members and a blue ribbon media panel will then cast votes of the final list of nominees to determine the class of 2015. The Poker Hall of Fame traditionally elects one or two members annually. The enshrinement ceremony is now held in concert with the final table of the Main Event of the WSOP, held each November in Las Vegas.

The main criteria for the Poker Hall of Fame are as follows:

♠ A player must have played poker against acknowledged top competition
♠ Played for high stakes
♠ Be a minimum of 40 years old at time of nomination
♠ Played consistently well, gaining the respect of peers
♠ Stood the test of time
♠ Or, for non-players, contributed to the overall growth and success of the game of poker, with indelible positive and lasting results.
I agree that Isai Scheinberg has been a major force in contributing to the overall growth and success of the game of poker, with indelible positive and lasting results. If there is a legitimate HOF, he should be in it.
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:48 PM   #6
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by TChan View Post
Yes, I know there are political reasons why he “won’t”.
When there's a wikipedia page entitled United States v. Scheinberg, the probability of him being invited to a party in Vegas isn't very high.
FTP and Stars settled with the DoJ, but isn't Isai's criminal indictment still in place?

He probably deserves to be in the HoF (although I'm not sure what purpose the HoF serves), but I don't see it happening in this lifetime.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:14 PM   #7
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

I wasn't aware that the process to getting picked for the HOF was shrouded with such a lack of transparency. This is a major problem for the HOF in general and should be changed.

As for Isai getting in, I firmly believe that he meets the criteria. The question is when is the right time. I thought a few years back when his name was first proposed that the timing wasn't right due to the indictment. Now that he has sold off his company and essentially walked away from the game I see no reason why he shouldn't be a member.

I imagine the only drawback to having him selected would be that he likely can't make it for the actual ceremony... but then again neither can the people that get selected after they've passed on.

Best of luck to Isai ,and I hope that his contributions to the game will be acknowledged this year.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:23 PM   #8
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

He could give an acceptance speech via video feed.

His lawyers would need to scrub the content in advance, but it would be a good event for poker.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:33 PM   #9
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

I support nominations of both Isai AND David Sklansky.

David's vote is long overdue, without his contributions to our industry Hold'em would be about as popular as Triple Draw is today. His book Holdem Poker defined how players should view hand rankings for the first time long before we were using equity calculators and the hand vs three randoms equity scale. In fact his hand groupings method has permitted to the point where even today some NL players (incorrectly) use his hand weighting chart for NL play. Hold'em Poker was written long before there were two blinds posted in 1976, back then only a few hundred people regularly played Hold'em - and the game wasn't yet legal in California!



David's other very important book was Theory of Poker, which introduced the "Fundamental Theorem of Poker": Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents' cards, they gain; and every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose. Conversely, every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have if they could see all your cards, you gain; and every time they play their hands the same way they would have played if they could see all your cards, you lose. . Understanding this statement was a watershed moment in my game, and many others. Its the reason we play, and it's proper application is what separates the average person from world class players.



Lets face it, without Isai Scheinberg and David Sklansky most of us would not be active in poker; these two pioneers in the game deserve to be recognized. Their time is now, in 2015 please support the induction of these two illustrious men into the Hall of Fame.


Additional reading on this topic from my buddy Nolan Dalla, who considers Theory of Poker the #1 most important poker book ever written and Hold'em Poker #3: http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/0...ooks-18297.htm

PS: For those of you who are not as clued in, David Sklansky was one of the co-writers of Super System with Doyle Brunson. Not to mention his extensive body of work with 2+2 Publishing such as Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players (with Mason Malmuth), No-Limit Hold 'em: Theory and Practice (with Ed Miller), and contributing to the ground breaking books Seven-Card Stud for Advanced Players (Ray Zee) and Small Stakes Hold 'em: Winning Big with Expert Play (Ed Miller). He is also a partner in the 2+2 Forums - but this is secondary to his ground breaking achievements in poker theory.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:50 PM   #10
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

I had no idea DS wasn't already in. That seems absurd.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:58 PM   #11
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

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Originally Posted by RichGangi View Post
I had no idea DS wasn't already in. That seems absurd.
Indeed.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:21 PM   #12
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

2014
Jack McClelland
Daniel Negreanu
2013
Tom McEvoy
Scotty Nguyen
2012
Eric Drache
Brian "Sailor" Roberts
2011
Barry Greenstein
Linda Johnson
2010
Dan Harrington
Erik Seidel
2009 Mike Sexton
2008
Henry Orenstein
Duane "Dewey" Tomko
2007
Barbara Enright
Phil Hellmuth
2006
Billy Baxter
T.J. Cloutier
2005
Crandell Addington
Jack Binion
2004 Berry Johnston
2003 Bobby Baldwin
2002
Lyle Berman
Johnny Chan
2001 Stu "The Kid" Ungar
1997 Roger Moore
1996 Julius Oral "Little Man" Popwell
1993 Jack Keller
1992 Thomas Austin "Amarillo Slim" Preston
1991 David "Chip" Reese
1990 Benny Binion
1989 Fred "Sarge" Ferris
1988
Doyle Brunson
Jack "Treetop" Straus
1987 Walter Clyde "Puggy" Pearson
1986 Henry Green
1985 Red Hodges
1984 Murph Harrold
1983 Joe Bernstein
1982 Tom Abdo
1981 Bill Boyd
1980 T "Blondie" Forbes
1979
Nick "The Greek" Dandolos
James Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok
Edmond Hoyle
Felton "Corky" McCorquodale
Johnny Moss
Red Winn
Sid Wyman
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:47 PM   #13
*TT*
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi View Post
I had no idea DS wasn't already in. That seems absurd.
David has been nominated before, and even advanced to the final round - but he has yet to be inducted. Many others in recent years were inducted who were also worthy, but IMO David should have made the cut before them because his contribution to the game is too important.

Why? IMO, and this is just my opinion, the HOF is (sadly) a popularity contest - only the "cool kids" get inducted in modern times where as historically popularity was not a factor before the boom. Take a good look at the past inductees to the HOF, there were many unsavory characters that contributed to the popularity of the game that were inducted. In modern times it has mostly (not totally) become a popularity contest for who is the most popular player - but in my opinion that is not in keeping with the spirit of the HOF's past voting. David's oddball personality has not won over enough people to lobby for him in prior years, IMO this is the year he deserves our help. It is time, lets all lobby for him and set the record straight (and also get Isai voted in at the same time of course!)
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:52 PM   #14
Land O Lakes
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Am I one of the few that thinks the hof is wgaf?
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:56 PM   #15
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

LOL at Puggy getting in before Doyle.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:31 PM   #16
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

When there's a wikipedia page entitled United States v. Scheinberg, the probability of him being invited to a party in Vegas isn't very high.

listen to arty.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:35 PM   #17
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

i hope david and mason are in hof . they promoted the game as non-players as much as any 2 fellas i know. they prob in,but what a sham if they're not.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:42 PM   #18
Cashcid Linc
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

edit: nvm +1 to Isai Scheinberg HOF, voted
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:51 PM   #19
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

people actually pay attention the the poker HOF?
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Old 08-06-2015, 04:08 PM   #20
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

David Skalansky or Isai should def get in this year.

The HoF is a complete joke if neither of them do.
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Old 08-06-2015, 04:24 PM   #21
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

These guys need to be in the HoF:
Sklansky
Caro
Malmuth
Bobby Hoff
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Old 08-06-2015, 05:56 PM   #22
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Agree with TChan's statement, voted.
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Old 08-06-2015, 06:24 PM   #23
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

*TT*'s points are spot on.

That said, I find it hard to get excited about this given the lack of details on who selects the HoF members It doesn't make me feel that there is a standard fair enough or high enough to make this mean much.

As an aside, it would be cool if they had an actual space dedicated to storing history and anecdotes about the HoF winners.
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Old 08-06-2015, 07:35 PM   #24
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

yeah most important takeaway from this thread is that the poker HOF is completely meaningless.
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Old 08-06-2015, 08:26 PM   #25
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Re: Campaign for Isai Scheinberg for the Poker HOF

Here is what I found on the first 7 members voted into the "Poker Hall of Fame"
Johnny Moss - Moss won the 1970, 1971, and 1974 World Series of Poker main events. For the 1970 WSOP, Moss was actually elected champion. He played at every WSOP from 1970 through the 1995 World Series, and during his career he won nine WSOP bracelets. During Moss' career he won $834,422 in WSOP tournament play.

Sidney "Sid" Wyman was a poker player and hotel owner in Las Vegas, Nevada. Wyman was a gambler and co-owner of several Las Vegas casinos including the Sands, Riviera, Royal Nevada and The Dunes.

Nikos "Nick the Greek" Dandolos was a professional gambler and high roller.

Felton "Corky" McCorquodale was a professional poker player, noted as the person who introduced Texas hold 'em to Las Vegas in 1963.

Red Winn was a professional poker player. Inducted because of his reputation as a brilliant all-round poker player.

James Butler Hickok (1837 – 1876)—known as "Wild Bill" Hickok—was a folk character of the American Old West. Some of his exploits as reported at the time were fiction. He was shot from behind and killed while playing poker in a saloon in Deadwood, Dakota Territory by an unsuccessful gambler, Jack McCall. The card hand which he held at the time of his death (aces and eights) has come to be known as the "Dead Man's Hand".

Edmond Hoyle (1672 – 1769) was a writer best known for his works on the rules and play of card games.
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