Yes, we find the "good ole boy" network to be offensive as well as the cheating.

That is quite the edit because it changes the tone quite a bit. At least the way I first understood it.

I am glad you cleared that up because again to me, it came out 100% that way.

Still one thing comes through loud and clear, they are totally incompetent or they simply do not care.



I was disappointed to see the follow up posts ( I am still glad you made them ) but it also seemed like back peddling to me also because the whole tone of that topic did a 180 from the original post imo.

When I first read it, I was livid and had even made a post damning PS security, cursing their future for any legalization in the U.S. and their lack of interest in ANY of your findings.

Agree with this too. Just reading all of these things, just destroys any faith I have in the online poker world. I loved this game but now, really seeing all of this crap, If it all ends tomorrow, I am not going to shed any tears.

I also want to add that in my original post I went off on Vanessa also. Then going back re-reading her posts, it seems many of them had been edited and it seems like some damage control had been done. I understand why it was but it seemed in many of her initial posts I was really rolling my eyes at what I was seeing and the viewpoint/stance she was taking. Now it seems to have been toned down somewhat but that also is discouraging because if a new person started to read the thread and saw the replies back to her, it may not seem as just as it was originally. Again, this is all my opinion but again, its all just so disappointing.

" Gray areas " " VPN isnt so bad because.....(insert reason)" " MA, everyone is doing it and since SOME people know about it, its not such a big deal like everyone is making it out to be. "

ALL of these comments are just discouraging and it drives home the point that if there was ever any integrity left in the online poker world, it is fading fast.

As for HASTINGS, I do not care if he is one of one hundred/five hundred who do this. I hope you are banned for life. I assume you were smart enough and PS was slow enough, that you were able to get your funds off. Another break for you that you can pat yourself on that back for.

Jason Mercier: There was a real, honest post two days ago talking about if they were in Jasons shoes how they most likely would have handled it. Morally, yes, he is obligated to report it ( and more than some chat box 'revelation' ) but honestly, if this was a friend of yours I think he took the approach most of us would have. JustasSpectator is correct though in saying:

"You can't be paid to endorse a poker site and be friends with people who you know are MA'ing high stakes games on that same site and not alert the site. You just can't. So either you cut off friendship with those people, or the site has to cut off endorsement with you. Period.

If nothing happens, then the message to poker players is "feel free to come and cheat on Pokerstars, and as long as you are friends with one of our Team Players you'll be ok, because they'll keep their mouth shut".

Just a sick, sick spot to be in period.

Anyway, this is ALL for PS to deal with and the thing that many of us fear is that NOTHING is going to be done about it.

It is for that, if it ends up being the case, that I hope they never get allowed into the U.S. Market. If this is the integrity and support to the poker community that they are going to represent to the States and to the players world wide, then they do not deserve the U.S. market and without some SWIFT changes ( yesterday was too late! ) they do not even deserve to be in the market period.

Being pissed at a sponsored pro expressing the opinion that pokers full of cheats and we should just hush it up cos it might screw the Americans and also being pissed that high profile players accept and participate in cheating are not mutually exclusive.

Its not nuanced at all. Youre assuming people have exactly the same level of pissedness with both. Which is just your guess.

Surprise, poker is full of scumbags and apologists

This came up as I was preparing my post so I missed it.

GREAT post! I applaud you for an honest ten year run and I think you are playing it very smart by doing your own thing and staying away from networking or socializing with any other players.

Just a well worded post that has merit across the board. Well done.

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/1...14.htm?style=2

Isildur's read was spot on back then, and people want to hate on him for giving action since??? Crazy.

yeh its hard to distinguish who comes off worse in this thread between stars, selbst and hastings

Vanessa,

I'm going to ignore the ridiculousness of you calling people who disagree with you pieces of ****, and point out you're being pretty ignorant of this specific situation.

Brian played with regulars in cash for months without telling them, and often started sessions playing fishy on purpose to ensure action from those regulars. It was a completely malicious hustle, regardless of the fact that he has some high stakes friends that he cares about and whatever depression problems he has.

Re: Jason,

He could have easily sent PS an email "Hey guys my friend Brian is playing in my cash games on a different name while in the US" and they would have done something about it. Why do you claim he needs a magical switch?


Just LOL @ the poker world #smh

Brian needs to come clean and then I'll decide if what he admits is worth any outrage. But right now, it looks pretty bad. Vanessa does a poor job defending him here.

Nice post. this is actually where i stand. i played in a game with him which i wouldnt have had i known it was BH. Ive known of the BCB/noel hayes accounts for 10 years and know hes a sports better/horse racing guy so naturally thought he was on some heater. Its hard to check HH for 5card, but ill look around at them.

I also feel sorry for those that jumped into the 25/50 plo zoom when he was playing seeing a random, as the regs there have such an insane edge, yet some people would have been willing to gamble with the NH account in there.

fwiw i dont think he used this account to multiaccount to generate action, as im sure he wold have gotten enough with his own sn, but its still super scummy and owes those in those games a lot of money.

BTW Mercier "outed" Hastings on 5-20-2015, but played with him in the same game days later:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2404

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2545

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2559

Just wanted to point out that Vanessa's contribution to this thread has been terrible. Don't let her fool you with the authority card she's trying to play, it's really sad to see how one can lose any sense of morality when a friend is involved. Not only morality but also intelligence apparently because while some of her points are somewhat correct or at least debatable some are just cringe worthy. But I'm sure Pokerstars will be pleased with her view on game integrity and all the grey areas associated to it.

Felt the same way about Negreanu when he was talking about Lindgren saying stuff like we have to understand he's from the old school of poker and have a different approach about paying debts. Just so hard to acknowledge your friend is a degenerate gambler that did some very scummy things.

I think it is a big deal its indicative of his character, hes willing to cheat for any preceived edge he may have, hes the type to cheat vs the handicapped he can win straight up but the sociopath in him wont allow it. the worst part of the whole thing are his explanations he thinks hes some crusader for online poker when hes just as selfish and disconnected as most people his age,,,, im not bashing but its juist weird what the hell is he even talking about hes either on drugs or needs some

I know I said I was done posting here, but I'm frustrated because everyone is assuming they know me or my motivations in posting and they don't.

Just wanted to clear up: I am not friends with Brian Hastings. None of my friends multiaccount (that I know of). I do not gain financially from a system that ignores cheaters or cheating, nor do I advocate that we ignore cheaters or cheating.

I was just fed up with everyone pretending and trying to be a realist but nevermind... I should have stayed out of it to begin with like I usually do, so that was my bad for giving a **** when it wasn't my turn to give a ****.

I really am done here, but this is for the record, one final time. I am not friends with Brian. I am not here defending Brian. What Brian did was very wrong, especially the deception in the cash games and using a prior account. I have NO ulterior motives, and I have not "lost my sense of morality" or condone cheating or unethical behavior in any way.

Has it ever occurred to you that as a paid representative of a site on which cheating is, by your own account, endemic, perhaps you were right the first time, and it is your turn to give a ****?

If you go back in history of this thread she told you guys exactly how you could 'give a ****' and it doesn't 100% involve pitchforks and torches.

IDK WTF you want her to do? Make a list of every allegation of cheating and forward on to the stars security department? Should she check the webpage to make sure all of the links are live and that noone left anything in the fridge over the weekend? JFC show some human empathy before you flame someone because a lot of people ITT are just flaming on the bandwagon to make themselves feel good imo.

I can see defending a friend but black and white is black and white

I have already posted in this thread objecting to the personal attacks being made on Vanessa and other posters. (The post seems to have been deleted along with some of attacks it referred to)

I am one of the people in the thread who hasn't jumped on the bandwagon or engaged in personal attacks, I have merely engaged with the posts she has made, on their own terms, in a respectful manner. Your post doesn't make any sense in this context.

LOL what could possibly go wrong

it's actually really easy: hastings by far and away.

it's a slippery slope crushing other people and entities without hard facts.

like do i think cole south is a soulless ginger for selling an ebook for 2k that he thought was only worth 30 dollars and for spending his career being close buds/business associates with townsend, hastings, and the entire cheatrunners atrocity?

yes, but these opinions, and those on vanessa, stars, and mercier ITT don't really matter that much.

imo, this is a pretty easy situation to dissect, but people are choosing to confound it with a lot of different variables cuz they're all part of a juicy story, and the mob mentality wants to get everyone with a "name" that goes against the commonly held viewpoint.

but all that matters is that brian mutli accounted, which is against T&C, which will hopefully lead to harsh penalties from stars.

The reason there is outrage is that high profile and high stakes players are involved.
Most people (me included) think that an offense which causes bigger losses to other players is more serious.

Random 17 years old MA'ing on father's account and playing 0.5$/1$ online - not much of a deal.
A high profile guy who plays for hundred of thousands of dollars, on whom very big bets are made and how stands to profit a lot from it - very big deal.

This has good basics in how morality/ethics work. Gains from unethical behavior is big part of the equation. Another big part is in what position the person is. It's less of a deal if a homeless guy steals a meal, more of a deal if a millionaire steals a few hundred k.
Yet another one is that if you are a known person who stands to gain from the reputation (be it coaching, staking, entries to private games, whatever else) the standards are higher for you.

With all that I think the outrage is justified. Expecting you to give a **** is justified as well as you are one benefiting from your reputation and representing Poker Stars. Expecting people not associated with Poker Stars to be whistleblowers is more problematic because there is a big cost of being a whistleblower and that cost might be too much for random not sponsored reg to take.

Anyway, I am not involved with anyone mentioned nor do I play poker anymore. I think the point is worth making though as from your posts it seems it eluded you.

[QUOTE=fslexcduck;47372537So I've only read a really small piece of this thread, apologies if I'm repeating.

I think y'all really need to think about what you're doing as a community. Crucifying someone who is MA'ing is absolutely terrible for poker. Basically, the people who wind up getting burned at the stake (BH, gboro, etc) are the people who were trying to do the "right thing" and come out to some people about their accounts. The people who say nothing to anyone get away scot free.

I'm not condoning the activity of MA'ing but from a pragmatic point of view, what's more likely to result from threads like these - that everyone stops MA'ing, or that they stop coming out to ANYONE at any time?QUOTE]

This is unbelievable on so many levels. If you are still a sponsored pro after this enquiry pokerstars needs to hang there heads in shame.

I think if you had just said this in the first place it would have been much clearer.

I, for one, thought you seemed to be trying to brush over this like it was our problem for being pissed at the situation rather BH being the problem.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and condemning BH. I think being at the top of the game and a PS pro you have a responsibility to condemn these type of actions whether you like it or not... Hope JM will follow suit and clarify his stance on this and his involvement, or lack of...

Stars' PR team probably drafted that post for her. It's really hard to stop being a cheating apologist on your own steam.

I ain't trying to claim to understand your motivation but given VS is ITT responding by definition she is giving a ****. So when posters flame asking her why she didn't check all the trashcans in Isle of Man you are getting mad at someone for doing what you are saying you want the reps to do. In fact, as a paid representative you could strongly argue that her paid responsibilty is to diffuse the situation with whatever insane PR that we have come to expect in every line of business in the whole freaking world. Give the lady a break, she is responding thoughtfully, and is is not her responsibility to run around all day trying to verify allegations of cheating at any level, jmo.