Please explain, seriously. I don't understand what you mean about me being "better than this post." Like I said, I'm not condoning the behavior at ALL. I'm just providing a point of view on the realities of the situation.

I'm done with this now. Bored beyond belief.

HS poker is like the old peloton in the Tour de France. Everyone cheats and everyone knows everyone cheats but everyone keeps it quiet because everyone else does it so it's all cool. Stop moaning and get on with it because it is what it is.

Too many people think like the above. Of course it mainly stems from the overly competitive, capitalist and malfunctioning socioeconomic bubble of modern life that is so unbalanced it can only implode with time. But I also think the messed up remnants of the poker boom has left many young men in their own clueless bubble due to too much money and never having had to interact and adjust as normal people do in society.

This game ain't so cool and I'm just bored beyond belief.

That's why I also used quotation marks around "right thing." I agree with you that it isn't, I'm just saying in the minds of people who do this, they believe it's more right than not to tell the people they're playing. I would agree that it is wrong to multiaccount, but if you're going to do it, it's more right to tell people than to not tell people. That's all I mean about the gray area.

awful comparison. hastings is a top level poker player. unless he is rigging the deck, colluding or can see his opponent cards, what's the big deal? It's about time Pokerstars has anonymous accounts or the option to change screen names.

I agree with the reality part. This is the environment of online poker and it's not going to change anytime soon no matter how hard nvg bashes someone.

dude u say its a big grey area and we shouldnt pile up....sounds like u wer condoning it a lot ..atleast from ur post

ps MA isnt a grey area...only cheaters think that

What does Girah think though?

but he didn't come out to everyone. he played against ton of guys who had no information that it was him playing while at the same time he was able to play against them with the past information he had on them.

are you seriously trying to defend him when actually ton of guys who moved abroad to play legally with their own screennames.

She's saying nothing good comes from talking about it.

vanessa were you one of the pros who knew about it?

Oh Snap!

got it.

He told his friends because he cares what they think and didn't want to hustle them? I'm assuming he "tried to tell Bakes" months after playing with him because a mutual friend of theirs told him to.

.

Brian better get a good lawyer. If any DA hops on this he has opened himself up to felony fraud charges in each state he played in, and federal wire fraud charges. We can debate the ethics of multi accounting but fraud is criminal everywhere in the US.

But she is also saying that the transparency creates perverse/adverse incentives and MAers will simply be more careful/quiet.

I think her argument is interesting, but ignores another possible outcome, which is that MAers see the consequences and choose to stop doing it.

In general? Of course.

With respect to Brian Hastings, after his posts and PM ITT, nope, abso****inglutely not.

What he did was worse than not telling anyone. He seemingly told only his friends and left any randoms/non-friends out of it. That's why people are calling out those who knew. In this instance, their awareness makes them culpable in his cheating.

As for him, he should absolutely be exposed for the cheater that he is. The "good for the game" argument is complete nonsense.

Hastings did in no way go out of his way to let people he played against know who he was. Judging by posts by for example Berri Sweet.

Dude looks like a lady!

I strongly disagree with this premise. A big part of this is that you find out if you are friends with the person or if you have a certain level of standing within some clique.

I also disagree w your thoughts on Mercier. When he finds out he has two options, if he has any integrity whatsoever:
1) Listen Brian, you just put me in a ****ty spot, you need to stop MA'ing.
2) Tell Stars. You can't be a Stars pro and also selectively shield people who are cheating.

I also disagree with the idea that the impact on poker as a whole is a relevant consideration for this thread.

lol at this sanctimony.

I mean, there is so much cognitive dissonance in your post when you celebrate Bakes, the guy didn't out Hastings for weeks or months and could have enabled many VICTIMS to lose lots of money, and then chastise Mercier and ChicagoJoey for doing exactly that. Celebrating the hero who outed Hastings is pretty inconsistent with your overall argument.

And maybe Mercier et al were facing the same moral dilemmas that Bakes was? Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt or at least not crucify them when they weren't the ones who were actually cheating?

And to be clear, I don't think it's Mercier's moral obligation to out everyone he sees doing something wrong in the poker world, and I think the moral outrage itt is pretty laughable when anyone who knew of Hastings' MAing was in a tough and unfair spot. I can understand the need for some sort of reasonable punishment as a matter of precedent, but booting him from PokerStars is not at all reasonable.

matt damon..amirite :P

OK it seems the specifics of this situation are more complicated/worse than I thought, so carry on and nevermind, sorry I chimed in without knowing a ton about the details. I'm super out of the loop and should have just kept my mouth shut!

(My point still stands from a hypothetical perspective on less insidious MA'ing, i.e. changing screen name once to play from US, which probably happens all the time)

The changing of SN's is obv the way forward but a lot of your post and sentiment is extremely mis-guided in my opinion.

Youre basically saying don't expose corruption (or a corrupt system) because that could cause its downfall.

Well, that is how improvements are made, thats how better systems are built. If theres a downswing or destruction of the system after corruption is exposed, there stands a lot better chance of a better one then coming into play, than by not doing anything. ESPECIALLY, if it goes widely un reported then someone from outside the industry exposes what a general **** show it is to the public.

Also, who gives a **** if he told his mates.

Many many many other players who know the Stinger account played with NH, the vast vast majority were deceived by a high profile extremely successful player because he felt it would be better for him personally to be able to stay at home and play poker.

Remember how the rest of the world plays poker too, not just the poor american HS crowd who were so wronged that cheating other players feels so right.