Stars is the hardest one and.........

You're right though, there are things that can be done. See NJ and NV online poker.

3 questions...

What is the endgame here?

If stars enables name changes, is Hastings somehow less guilty?
(I understand at the time it was against ToS)

Can we all agree Hastings needs a publicist?
(Obv thanks for not getting one Brian!)

Some comments...

I think that Brian is telling some truth in between his reallypoor attempts at deflection and avoidance, specifically about it being a deep widespread problem, that is more common than just his admitted(!) transgressions. And from this perspective I can see how he feels unjustly persecuted compared to the many other people doing exactly the same thing.

However, many more people sell drugs than are in prison for selling drugs, and those who do get caught still have to accept their punishment. And if you're going to make the biggest drug deals then your punishment when you get caught is going to grow in proportion.

I think this is more about who he won money from and how much money he won. There very well may be a plethora of regs MA'ing on stars right now, but they didn't get caught, and didn't admit they were doing it, and they didn't do it to a celebrity that people love.

One last question...

If Hastings came out and scorched earth outted everyone and their different accounts and horses accounts and VPNing, people who are gaining unfair advantages by masking who they are etc., and the list was long and included everyone's favorite and respected players, would their be as much outrage towards him?

I think it's the only way he salvages the situation. And I think the silence and retractions point towards a community that is holding their collective breath that this does not happen.

Well said sir.

i think there is an expectation among midstakes players who have been playing for a while that many of the well known higher limit players have been cheating for a while now, but because of staking, relationships & general scumbaggery most won't speak up. i think more players are getting disgusted with sites like the present pokerstars & are seriously concerned that they are not being offered a fair game any longer. i would have loved it if the old stars would have become licensed in the US, but I honestly hope the new pokerstars does not.

I personally don't care who knew.

When I was young I worked at a marina where my best friend stole a case of beer every week. It wasn't my place to "out" him to management but I privately warned him of the potential consequences. He lost his job shortly thereafter although I never opened my mouth. We're still good friends and he's grown up tremendously in the last decade and realizes the dumb mistake.

I get that NVG is making this out to be comparable to covering up a murder but in 'corporate America' no one is running to boss man telling him that Brian is milking the clock.

Great, your going to compare this to someone stealing a case of beer every week & pretty bad comparison at that. Does 2+2 have any mods that care about cheating?

Truth

Yes, it was. Why wouldn't it be?

That's an ethical-leak on your part, whether you acknowledge it or not. I would certainly not employ anyone that I knew that has as their default position a blind eye to theft.

Regarding sponsored pros, I would expect similar leaks are covered by the terms of their contracts.

i am really starting to question how important ethics and cheating is to the people who moderate these forums. if you managed these forums how many months would you let someone represent your site who has been accused, by a proven source, and refused to respond, even if just to say hey, it wasnt me???

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...-stay-1552109/

i mean, you can go for ikes moderatorship if you want, but you realize it's a volunteer position that doesn't really have any perks if you're not slinging products.

we all want him to do one thing, deny he was aware of ma'ing accounts & cheating. bakes as a source has proven to be pretty reliable. do you think it is unreasonable for ike to come in here and deny the allegations? yet, most 2+2 mods refuse to address it.

if he doesn't want to reply as a mod, he should no longer be a moderator. if it is such a useless position which he gets no value from, he can walk away from it & nobody can make him respond to the allegations (not yet at least).

it's unreasonable for you to think that the difference between him keeping/losing his moderatorship should do with whether or not he comments on the issue.

given his silence and lurking in these threads, its obv he knew something, but if you're going to start punishing moderators for knowing someone is cheating and not immediately outing them, then you basically need to ban 2p2.

its a stars issue, not a 2p2 issue.

Did your best friend keep from you that your wife was cheating on you or something? Your obsession with someone that didn't do anything and has a fantastic reputation is odd, to say the least. Ike has nothing to gain by interacting with people like you.

i mean i guess this can happen, but its kind of petty and small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

no, i was cheated from ma'd accounts, ghosted accounts & have a few collusion & bot refunds in plo i understand what his rep is,which is why i can't understand why he won't deny the allegations. that simple. no, i don't 5kplo, i was a 1kplo reg who is stuck in the usa. and have been poker enough to have encountered many mid & highstakes pos

your probably right

Why should mods address it?

You are right that Stars is harder to VPN without being caught than other sites but you are missing the point.

The most sophisticated IT person could hide VPN such that Stars could not detect it from the technical data they receive. Collusion could be detected solely from data that Stars has.

I'm on my phone so I can't multi-quote but A) I never implied that what Hastings did wasn't breaking the t&c and cheating. B) I was drawing a (albeit very silly) parallel why anyone who isn't in upper management, let alone a friend, would ever get involved.

Is it a lapse in judgement, sure. If they were egregiously using that information to their advantage should they have some accountability, fine.
However, for not whistleblowing should they receive the same wrath, absolutely not IMO, especially if they're just an ambassador and not a major player in the company.

I know it's difficult but I encourage those who are asking for Ike and co. head's to compare this to the other arenas in business where manipulation and stealing occurs. Scream from the rooftops all you want about Hastings but those that were merely privy to the information wouldn't be doing themselves any favors by sounding the alarm, let alone answering to the public about what they knew.

You have a villain so there's no need to couple all of those who may be guilty by association in this situation to strengthen a case.

ike's comment earlier this year about the venetian/aria TD summit mess:

"... Accepting the support of an organization with such an aggressive political presence is a tacit acceptance of its politics. Adelson has vowed to 'spend whatever it takes' to ensure online poker is never legal in the US. Pretending his efforts to support the TDA have nothing to do with that campaign is willfully ignorant."

he's willing to be the morality police when it comes to others, but not himself.

jfc are you being serious here? nobody is asking for ike's head, people have been asking for months for ike to respond to the allegations that he knew about stingers88 ma'ing stars and for months ike has logged in, read the thread and refused to deny the allegation even once. nearly every mod comes out in defense of him, yourself included. do you realize how absolutely ridiculous you and some of the other moderators sound? do you really think replying just once to the allegations is a task too onerous for ike haxton himself? how stupid do you think we are?

why do people want to hear from ike? because he is a representative of 2+2 (like it or not) and a well known player who represents the site the cheating took place on & it was alleged he knew about. that simple.

at what ****ing point will you guys admit to yourselves what is going on here? how long does he have to dodge before it becomes obvious he (and shaun deeb, another great 2+2mod )and many,many more of your heros are complicit in cheating?

Ike has no responsibility to answer to you. Do you realize how ridiculous you're being with all this non-sense about Ike having to respond and telling people to write someone in the UK about Noel Hayes?

You didn't even play in any of the games that he played in. Get over it.

@hotwarmcold
From your posts and our PMs you seem to have a greatly inflated view of the power and status of moderators. As pointed out Greens are much appreciated volunteers that help keep things tidy in their assigned forums. They don't represent the site and often have disagreements with managements and other mods as to how it should be run and/or the positions they take.

Mods cant mod or edit posts outside of the forum they are listed as a moderator. The exceptions are super mods (orange) admins (purple) and staffers (red). Even if one were to edit a post, with the exception of the reds, who never do it, there would be a "last edited by..." tagline.

Bottom line irt Ike is nothing will happen with his status @ 2+2 unless there is hard evidence of a major wrongdoing and management believes he is a liability.

I think Ike is a very smart person. Right or wrong, he will know when it is worth commenting on or when it is best to keep out of the discussion if there is zero upside in engaging.

I think you are among the many frustrated by the lack of any overt action taken against Hastings and are now taking wild swings wherever you can.

Well I did play in the same games, and I am still awaiting some sort of response from PokerStars.

I believe that PokerStars has a responsibility to address this issue, to reassure the straight players on their site that they are still actively looking out for game integrity

If it came from a 2+2 moderator who knew about the wrongdoings, who I thought would be a bit more friendly to the community and transparent in a spot like that, then all the better

Sure, maybe he doesn't have the responsibility to say anything. We just all thought we could count on a bit more than that