Massive thread and a lot of speculations and nonsense being posted so let's do a recap on the facts so far:

- Hastings MA and VPN for months, cherrypicks who he is going to tell about it and cheats the rest of the HS players out of a lot of money.
- Bakes blows the whistle.
- Apperantly some of the biggest Stars Pros know what Brian Hastings is doing. (Isaac Haxton, Jason Mercier)
- Brian Hastings posts some drivel trying to downplay his cheating ways.
- Vanessa Selbst jumps in and joins the downplaying game embarrassing herself in the process, showing disrespect for the poker comunity and anyone that expects from people (pros included) to follow the rules of the game, ends her participation in the thread with what looks like a very formal post done by a legal advisor.
- No comments from Stars.
- Quotes of Lee Jones's podcast interview posted itt where he explains that dealing with MA isn't their top priority while at the same time VPNing from USA is a major offense because of the deal Stars made with DoJ, taking on the task and responsibility to prevent US citizens from playing on Stars from the states using VPN.


Those are the facts of the thread and here is my read/conclusion/speculation on the situations:
- There's a VPN/MA ring going on in the states for years and most if not all US high stakes pros know about it and some take advantage of it.
- Brian Hastings is a naive moron and doesn't understand the damage he has done to online poker integrity in general and the potential damage to Stars in particular.
- Stars keeps quiet and most likely orders all pros to stfu because talking about MA issues draws attention to a much more serious problem for Stars, organized VPN ring.
It's a massive problem for them because if it's proved that they turned a blind eye to VPN, they are basically in a breach of their DoJ deal/contract and might affect future licence deals in USA.

From a poker comunity point of view, we don't care much about VPN users but we want the MA issue addressed and dealt with but because of the VPN problem I don't expect any comment from Stars or any of their Pros (including DN) in this thread.
They are muted by Stars management/legal team.

Seems to me that over the last two years there seems to be huge scandal after scandal on pokerstars yet they do NOTHING in terms of being transparent and treat the 2+2 community with respect. One may argue that this site and its users are insignificant to pokerstars and that our opinions dont matter but, if that is the case should they really be allowed to peddle and promote their site here then? All or nothing imo. As of now they are just being selective in their communications with 2+2

Excellent point.
I remember when the Cake fiasco was going on and Lee Jones( working for Cake at the time) was just trying to control the damage instead of giving us real info, Mason publicly (in the cake thread) warned him to start talking or get banned..
And here we are in a similar situation with the same players only this time even Mason ignores this thread.
I wonder why..

Hastings seems like he is a massive douche, that gets put up with by some HS players to keep games going. And like many laws, without enforcement: rules becoming meaningless.
Massive Thread though. And until Michael Borovetz chimes, no one is going to get a book/film deal out of it.

Jared, "Harrington25" Bleznick addresses the multi-accounting allegations (at about an hour in, talks about Brian Hastings):

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcas...-under-the-gun

All thigs aside, I believe this is indeed business as usual for PS. How many times have we seen this happen before? That's standard with PS.

Maybe reaching out to dnegs is not such a bad idea.

Deep throat--you keep making a reference to reaching out to those that would have the info and could share it without repercussions. And earlier you kept saying that person was Dnegs. But here's what I dont understand. You say (or strongly imply) that you work for PS as you claim firsthand knowledge of all this detailed insider info. And you say you cant reveal your name due to fear of losing your job. Fair enough.

Then you say that we cant get the info from any of the PS sponsored pros because they have been told by PS lawyers not to comment. Also fair enough.

But what other PS employee would be not also under these same constraints? It would seem that given PS felt this was serious enough to have several strategic meetings about, and given that their decision was to tell everyone involved to shut up about it, doesnt it make sense to believe they would have put the word out to all their employees/pros to also shut up?

Why do you keep insisting that there are PS insiders who know the facts, and would be able to tell us, and who also have not been told by PS not to comment? That really doesnt make sense. It seems to me that for someone to have all the inside info they must be a PS insider and under the same restrictions as everyone else. And if your source is an outsider, how could he have access to the info?

You've shared a lot of info, but when it comes to this point you keep talking in vague terms with no explanation.

My guess is futballer / greenwallet, bravadomacho or some other special kid from the rigged thread. They have a lot of imagination and spare time.

He's hardly convincing in denying the multi accounting (Harrington that is)

Very Good points on your part... and I am such a liar as I said I was not going to post anymore at the request of Adam and others. But I promise this will be my last post as you brought up and asked a very good question of me.

Mod edit: Removed statements made as fact

I thought he stated that he did multi-account years ago, but that he hasn't played online poker in a long time?

I don't know the guy, but he came off as pretty genuine in the interview, at least in my opinion. He did state that he thought multi-accounting was cheating.

You just post a bunch of bull **** with out proof. In the day of the internet words mean nothing with out proof. Please stop posting on this forum as all your posts are AIDS. You think by typing long posts you have more credibility and we should believe you because you say it's true. **** off.

Drama queen much? I asked you sincerely if English was your first language because what I quoted in my post was impossible to comprehend. It seems I was right with my suspicion that you were not a native English speaker. How is that harsh and mean?

I don't believe for a second that Deep has any kind of insider info, although he sure likes to pretend he does.

Oh, I see. So as it turns out, you have no ****ing clue what the word "naive" actually is. Here's a pro-pro-protip:

Naivete and values aren't the same thing, Einstein. Just because someone 'wants' a poker game to be a certain way has nothing to do with their relative savvy as to how any given poker game actually is in the real world. I *want* to be able to wander drunk through the ghetto in a business suit wearing a Rolex with $10K in my pocket, but the reality of what actually happens if I do that is contrary to what I want, ergo I don't do it because unlike you, I'd rather avoid getting shafted all together as opposed to bearing the negative consequence but maintaining the moral high ground.

"Honesty" is often the seeds of naivete. Being unable to conceive of anything that isn't following rules, the honest man is astonished when he encounters someone who doesn't. Sure, you get the righteous indignation and can squeal about how unfair it all is, but the dishonest guy got the money.

Reminds me of an argument I had as a kid with a friend. Our town had crosswalks that cars would always speed through but this particular friend of mine made it a point to dart right out into the crosswalk and into oncoming traffic, to the point that he often caused cars to lock up their brakes. When I told him this was ****ing ******ed and that eventually he would be killed, he noted that the drivers were in the wrong and if they killed him, they would be thrown in jail.

Your logical error (as was his) is thinking that being 'in the right' is some suit of armor that empowers you to go into the world naive to its realities. It isn't. Right or wrong, you wind up bearing heavier consequences.

You clearly suggested it was justifiable to stoop to their level because it evens the playing field. This is unethical because not everyone is cheating, thus the playing field isn't actually evened, and joining in the cheating just creates a bigger problem.

Your drunk rich guy getting robbed analogy doesn't prove your point. Yes, it would be unwise to put yourself in a situation where you're likely to get robbed. This doesn't justify the robber's actions or make it any less slimy for you to starting robbing people as well. Hence, if a lot of your opponents are cheating at poker, that doesn't give you an excuse to start cheating as well.

The honorable players that are willing to get "shafted" every once in a while as opposed to becoming part of the problem are doing the poker community a big favor. Especially if they are actively trying to fix the problem of cheating like Bakes is. We should aspire to be more like them instead of coming up with lame justifications like, "Is it any less ethical to take counter-measures to evade that?" Yes, it is highly unethical.

+1

Well said and you saved me from having to reply - thanks!

But is a cheater ok?

A belief that you should not "snitch" is one pushed by exploiters so that they can continue to exploit the exploited unchallenged. You need only visit some US cities or parts of Mexico to see that following that code leads to societal decay and misery.

All poker cheaters should be outed ASAP, punished, ostracized, and never rationalized or excused. Failing to do that hurts the game, its growth, and those that currently play it by allowing crooked players to steal EV from players that play it straight.

what did Selbst say in her posts? post #?

Basically "You NVG peons and idiots cannot possibly understand the world of high-stakes online poker, in which multi-accounting is not only tolerated but expected."

Except she was more insulting than that.

Then after 8 posts or so of that nature, she attempted a lame backtrack. Then she went away.

Also, snitching is ratting out your supplier/partner/etc. to avoid jail time when you get caught.

Simply speaking up about wrongdoing is not "snitching" -- it's whistle blowing.

Correct, and the ****ing scumbags of the world who lie, cheat, and steal their way through life (which includes a TON of people) hate that as well.

Bakes is not a snitch, he did the right thing. Hastings needs to learn he can't continue to be a scumbag and get away with it. If anyone was ever bad for poker, it's this clown.

1. Cheats the biggest action player ever out of 4 milly and busts him.
2. MA and steals equity from other HS players, and players in general.
3. Wins all the money at WSOP and snap quits and moves to PA.

remember me?