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Old 09-30-2019, 05:12 AM   #1
HandOfGod666
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Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

To those that are unaware, the past year has been an absolute disaster for players on the Winning Poker Network. I will attempt to accurately break down the timeline of events from my perspective over the past year.

November 2018

While playing a large number of hands competing in the beast I began to notice that many of the accounts from the former Eastern Bloc countries had identical postflop stats, especially stats that differed drastically from those of regulars outside of these countries. I had always been suspicious of these accounts because of their strange tendencies postflop but I had always seen a difference in preflop stats and I didn't realize that these were just adjustments to the rake level the bots were stationed at. I started to sift through my database and lo and behold when I checked 2 stats in particular all of these accounts stood out from the rest. They are: Flop cbet(multiway) and Flop Float (bet vs missed cbet in HEM). Their multiway flop cbetting is higher than heads up and their flop float is over 75% on average. Many of the 6max PLO games had 2-4 of these bots simultaneously. I started to collect names of these accounts as well as their other stats and sent the information to WPN security immediately. I then talked to a known poker pro that referred me to WINNING_TD who I spoke with on the phone. He told me that since none of the accounts I suspected to be bots were in the USA that it was impossible for any of the accounts to be bots. This obviously was not an acceptable outcome for me so I decided to contact Joe Ingram and he said he would love if I provided him with the data on these bot accounts. I did some research on the pokerstars/party PLO cash botring from 2016 and these accounts had the same postflop tendencies as well as some of the same preflop tendencies such as preflop squeeze being higher than preflop 3bet from every position and at every stake. I created a 2p2 account and began sharing the data on a few threads. No bots were banned.

April 2019
Twitch streamer "EricCollier" was playing a NL MTT and I was watching. He made it to heads up versus an account from Latvia called "FoxRox". FoxRox entered HU very deep and proceeded to tank and fold preflop almost every single hand versus a minraise and open fold the button. This was clearly a bot that somehow malfunctioned and was obvious to all viewers. The video went viral and there were many posts about it on various social media outlets.

In the days that followed this FoxRox incident, WPN CEO Phil Nagy went on a media blitz with many interviews and videos where he acknowledged that there was a bot problem and vowed that he would finally once and for all crack down on the bots and refund players $25,000 per bot that was banned based on how much they lost to the bot as an overall percentage and a convoluted structure based on what position they were in in games that the MTT bots cashed in.

In the month after the FoxRox incident, 46 accounts were banned and added to this page https://www.winningpokernetwork.com/banned-accounts/.
Many of the refunds went to other suspected bot accounts. The last group of banned accounts was added to this page on May 15th.


May 20th 2019

-WPN changes previous IGNsoft client to software that was previously used for their jackpot poker games. Players experienced numerous issues such as: pressing the enter key triggering a bet inadvertently, login not working, accounts not being recognized entirely and deleted from the WPN database, funds diasppearing from tables, extreme lag, crashes, disconnects, forced logouts, ect. Rake race leaderboards diappeared entirely and both VIP and flat rakeback payments completely stopped as well as deposit bonuses for months. Bots were gone for a few days but quickly returned. Hand histories are not being generated for all in situations at cash and MTTs.

July 2019

The VIP program was promised to be restored on July 10th, however on July 9th, the date was pushed back to a later unspecified date. Some of the glitches were fixed but many remained and still remain to this date. Bot situation continued to worsen at PLO cash but most tables still had only 1 bot max and only a couple tables would have 2 bots on certain days and times. Hand histories are not being generated for all in situations at cash and MTTs.

August 2019


Some VIP rakeback was paid but not the correct amounts. Bot situation begins to seriously worsen, one bot was seen winning the beast with the overall top place one week and many tables having 2 bots. Players report being shortchanged on flat rakeback payouts and affiliates report not being paid. Hand histories are not being generated for all in situations at cash and MTTs.

September 2019

Bot situation goes full out insane with almost every table during peak hours and especially on Fridays (the last day of the Beast race) having sometimes almost 90% of PLO200 and lower having 2-4 bots on it. Rank points and their equivalent are being shortchanged over 50%. Flat rakeback players are reporting not receiving any rakeback and even negative rakeback, or being shortchanged massively. Hand histories are not being generated for all in situations at cash and MTTs.


Spreadsheet of some bot accounts for selected stats from Feb 2019:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Jj9dj4DSPc8h4E

92 PLO bot accounts playing the exact same postflop stats over the past couple years which only 4 have been banned to date (most of these accounts are no longer active but only 4 have officially been banned and "refunded") There are many new bot accounts currently active playing this same profile.

Crazyhooch
Hhodor
beaverr
kobretti
familier
Lexum
SnowJohn
feralturnskin
Hyperion115
PortgasAceAce
I_hold_it
k4m4z
ropedancer
gladiaTHOR1
flakeoutZzz
Tojagar
SafeBYRYNDY
fata1hand
zoltanPK
maniac115
Gefest
NYMph49
phanatik
interpidtracer
Alkea101
iBetUfoldt
Evilskill
wrestlertruth
evergreenwin
Slackbreaker
Lincolion
pknsha
pushkan
oddi
Zergwentape
NimbleBeck
Wishko
PotBeMy
dikobrazzers
Illcallback
Jiraffe
TheUnlimiteD
stoicwise
aceeater
Ludoman
glowworm
bardos11
NoDose
kr0na
FeelGod
hophey68
scabbydog
needurnrj
Superfisher
redAppl
lazycroc
technokrat
MrLarson
Blimey
Ca11MeBaby
gloomypapa
Quakeeeeeee
homyakubiytsa
deadmanshand76
rightdecision
pennyHill
Insector
Smart1One
Shtilter
cashbang
imPekabu
baikal77
kigdin
Loktar
DaggerGT
klarSSon
KyleBroflovski
dancingQQ
Besmily
temerarious5
teslaM77
BurningManKK
wolf_DDDDOG
carrdSharrk
groundsquirrel
Gelllemar
ObeTwice
wildpokem0n
Toughie
Trickset
Jokers_Grin

The following are some of the new bots that I am aware of that play the same stats as the above 92 accounts that arrived after May 20th:

RibaFishKKa
dashforward
DaRkDailo
TinnySun
StubblyPan
betH0ven
dilemmafixer
zvezZzda

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 09-30-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:27 AM   #2
The Standard Station
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Keep up the good work, I know I do and I'm sure other regs also really appreciate everything you've done. Which bot won the overall rake race? Do you feel that above plo200 the bot problem isn't very severe, or not much insight since you're mostly talking about the pool that you play?
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:30 AM   #3
HandOfGod666
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhlm2 View Post
Keep up the good work, I know I do and I'm sure other regs also really appreciate everything you've done. Which bot won the overall rake race? Do you feel that above plo200 the bot problem isn't very severe, or not much insight since you're mostly talking about the pool that you play?
There is a new variant of the original bot which there is a large number of accounts. They play much more balanced and passively on the flop, but on the turn and river have similar wild aggression frequencies and lines as well as wild, outlandish preflop 4bets just like the original accounts. zzz888zzz is the prototypical bot of this class and also won the beast the first week it was introduced. I have seen some of the older bots that were around on the old version of the software playing above PLO200 and are still active currently (kigdin, ropedancer, wolf_DDDDOG,temerarious5). Since statname (and every other 3rd party tracking site) has completely stopped supporting WPN and told me they will never support WPN again it is impossible for me to accurately monitor new bots at these stakes.

Last edited by HandOfGod666; 09-30-2019 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:49 AM   #4
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Can we have a breakdown of NLHE bots? Perhaps, you can try some tables, and see? Do you know NLHE?
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:58 AM   #5
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN



NVG is delivering today, i like it.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:13 AM   #6
Minimal23
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Someone should show Rob Yong this as he seems to believe that players' efforts to catch cheating isn't as good as they think it is.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:35 AM   #7
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

They owe me Blitz money from months ago. They just emailed me 3 days ago talking about send us info about the hands, they have all the information on their end. I'm supposed to be a player and their accountant? The site is a joke.


Endless people saying they aren't getting the right RB or VIP equivalent. The place seems like it's about to go under cuz everything has gone to ****... for months. Not to mention 5 months of new software filled with bugs, disconnects, missing money, lack of actual customer support.

This has to be the most ghetto of the larger online poker rooms atm.


OH YA, AND THERE'S MASSIVE BOTS. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! They banned a few for PR and left god knows how many.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:41 AM   #8
barney big nuts
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

nice work op
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:27 AM   #9
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Huntington View Post
They owe me Blitz money from months ago. They just emailed me 3 days ago talking about send us info about the hands, they have all the information on their end. I'm supposed to be a player and their accountant? The site is a joke.


Endless people saying they aren't getting the right RB or VIP equivalent. The place seems like it's about to go under cuz everything has gone to ****... for months. Not to mention 5 months of new software filled with bugs, disconnects, missing money, lack of actual customer support.

This has to be the most ghetto of the larger online poker rooms atm.


OH YA, AND THERE'S MASSIVE BOTS. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! They banned a few for PR and left god knows how many.
Nothing will change unless we see a mass exodus of funds being pulled by many top players and regs, causing the site to reveal its insolvency. Many top mtt players don't keep funds on the site and pull regularly after mtt wins. The regs who are used to rakeback and loyalty are tired of eating the sites losses.

The site is very bot infested. Let the bots play against each other.

Some pros and top players on the site are already fed up with how the site is being run and how there is no explanation for it. It is only a matter of time before a significant percentage of them pull funds and break the acr bank.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:33 AM   #10
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Spade Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javoc View Post
Some pros and top players on the site are already fed up with how the site is being run and how there is no explanation for it. It is only a matter of time before a significant percentage of them pull funds and break the acr bank.
It seems like these "pros" are all like OP. Accuse ACR of being corrupt and thieves while also complaining about bots but they also won't stop playing there because #rakeback. ACR has no incentive to change atm because for the pros it's just the price of doing business. Part of the rake if you will.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:49 AM   #11
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Can also confirm getting short-changed on rakeback, mostly from SNGs/MTTs, but I'm getting shorted in cash too
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:06 PM   #12
Sir Huntington
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated View Post
It seems like these "pros" are all like OP. Accuse ACR of being corrupt and thieves while also complaining about bots but they also won't stop playing there because #rakeback. ACR has no incentive to change atm because for the pros it's just the price of doing business. Part of the rake if you will.
Why are you posting this stuff in WPN threads? You been doing it here and there and it adds nothing to the discussion.
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:11 PM   #13
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Just FYI to those who may question HandOfGod's bot detection methods -- He has a proven track record of being very accurate. These are not frivolous claims.

The bot problem is as bad as it seems from this post, and the glitches are annoying and costly.

The biggest problem though is that there isn't much in the way of an alternative for US players. The other sites have very low traffic and many of them don't even natively work with HEM/PT4.
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:19 PM   #14
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Huntington View Post
Why are you posting this stuff in WPN threads? You been doing it here and there and it adds nothing to the discussion.

For me it did tho.

So we should live according to your rules? You say it and thats it, thats the truth?
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:50 PM   #15
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Spade Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Huntington View Post
Why are you posting this stuff in WPN threads? You been doing it here and there and it adds nothing to the discussion.
You're free to place me on your ignore list.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:29 PM   #16
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

OP is legit of course, and any reasonable person who looked at his data (or gets for themselves from a tracking site) would agree, but there always seem to be doubters that come out of the woodwork to add their two cents to these threads.

There was a period of time when the bots were giving unlimited HU action, and I did a fair bit of collaboration with OP. I don't even play on WPN, but the same bots are on other networks (so the take your business elsewhere argument is moot). I have no reason to lie about this and absolutely nothing to gain, so hopefully it makes the vouch more meaningful.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:18 PM   #17
Javoc
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

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Originally Posted by Hoopster81 View Post
(so the take your business elsewhere argument is moot). .
The difference is that 2+2 and other third party tracking sites are not becoming unaffiliated with other poker sites, like they have with this site. Not to mention what some recognized pros have had to say about what this site has become. I just wish we had some explanation for why the site has been ran so poorly. It's sad, because acr has/had so much potential to become a great poker site. Unfortunately, it seems that the management just doesn't care, or aware that this site is reaching it's end.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:04 PM   #18
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Have you watched Joey's podcasts with the guy running that ship? Speaks for itself imo.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:39 PM   #19
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

There is a huge bot infestation at NLHE cash as well and numerous threads detailing their stats.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...e-bot-1727995/

The same bots are still around although the names may be different now, the stats are still the same.

The PLO cash bots have played as high as 15/30 in the past and regularly are playing in 5/10 presently.

The main reason I created this thread is that WPN has not only allowed bots to play 2-4 per 6max table, they are now committing outright fraud with their rakeback programs. This cannot go on any longer. There are no public figures in the community talking about this on social media, the only public faces that talk about WPN are all sponsored players that act like WPN is the greatest poker site in the history of the universe.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:44 PM   #20
OOO POCKET ROCKETS
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Shorted in RB on BCP and chat will lie and say numbers are correct.

Was also denied a casino rebate bonus when they said I didn’t meet the lossback requirements. Complete lie once again.

Something is wrong at this site
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:38 PM   #21
JamesYang
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

A lot of these bot names look so familiar even though I never played PLO. I just realized that bots copy names from NL100+ regs and change them by a single character to be deceptive. But yea, WPN went downhill over the summer with the software update and is now unplayable. I left the site because of the rakeback/VIP fraud HOG66 mentioned. They are using the incompetent software roll out to short change players and hoping nobody else notices.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:55 PM   #22
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Thumbs up Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Creating a timeline was a great idea, OP.
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:01 AM   #23
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

Thanks for work op, pretty sad that after all the scandals over the year there is this bs still going on

Anyway keep it up and thanks for putting in the time, unfortunately I feel no one is listening or cares
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:12 AM   #24
tox_classic
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

If it came out tomorrow that WPN literally gives money to anti legal online poker lobbyists I would not be surprised. The only reason so many of us play there is for lack of other options, and they know it.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:50 AM   #25
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Re: Bots and player funds misappropriation on WPN

ChiefftaiN new confirmed PLO bot
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