You recall incorrectly. On 2-3 occasions, I have been critical of HOG's posts about his belief that the site was basically not financially viable, just as I recently praised his decision not to play there any more. There is no personal issue between us, at least not on my part. As for this thread, I made the suggestion that bot stuff could be posted in another thread (see the quote below), and HOG decided to start this one.

And I don't think your issue with this thread makes any sense. Before this post of yours, there had been 7 posts in this thread in the last 2 months. You say there are daily posts about bots in the WPN thread. So the discussion is happening there, and isn't happening here. No one's ever been told they can't post about bots in the WPN thread. Here's what I said about it at the time:

So, given that no one was ever told that they couldn't post about bots in that thread, people are still posting about bots in that thread on a regular basis, and that this thread has been virtually unused for the last couple of months, I don't see how this thread is diminishing the discussion about bots.

Divide and conquer.

The fact that the disussion is taking place in two threads instead of one hurts the discussion.

But Bobo Fett I am glad you showed up in thread now so that people didn't have to take my word. You confirmed #1 you have had issues with HOG and #2 that it was you that suggested splitting the discussion into another thread.

So when someone in this thread talks about a bot getting second place in a $30 MTT (for probably a nice bit of cheese) in this thread, if there are people who play on WPN but only read the official thread, but not this seldom used 7 posts in 2 months (your words) thread, then they are poorly informed about the problems.

THERE IS SOME STOLEN MTT MONEY THAT NEEDS TO BE REFUNDED, BUT THE ONLY KNOWLEDGE OF IT HAPPENING WAS POSTED IN A SELDOM USED THREAD CREATED BY BOBO FETT.

Who's trying to conquer?

At times it can, yes. Other times, it can lead to a more robust conversation about a topic rather than it being lost in a thread that covers many things. In this case, neither has really taken place, at least not in the last few months.

No, I've had no issues with HOG. I've disagreed with him a few times.

Yup.

And if this is such a big problem, all you have to do is quote the post in the other thread. Or you can suggest the original poster do so. Or you can just rant about it in here in all-caps and try to make the issue about me. Whatever works for you, I guess.

Um, no.

If a malfunctioning bot in an MTT is such a big problem?

You embarrass yourself as you try to deflect your involvement in making the bot discussion harder instead of easier. And by the way, it was video of a malfunctioning bot that essentially forced WPN to create the refund program. But hey if anyone finds another malfunctioning bot, post in a seldom used thread created by Bobo Fett, then have another poster have to quote that post from the seldom used thread into the official thread. Instead of all the discussion taking place in official from the get go.

I guess we can start calling doing things the hard way Fett-logic.

You are not going to take ownership of your small part in making it difficult for players on WPN to stop getting their money stolen (or how it stemmed from your littleness towards HOG).

For the day after Christmas, I gift you the last post, I'm sure it will be more of the same ridiculousness.

No, I meant if having the post about the malfunctioning bot in this thread is such a problem, of course.

OK.

No, not created by me.

Since you were so concerned that no one was seeing the post, I thought that would be a good start.

Then a good next step would be to ask HOG what he thinks about closing this thread and directing people to the WPN thread. I'd have no issue with that, and since this thread has died off, it might make sense. But I think he should have some say in the matter.

Whatever works for you.

This is important and needs to be publically outed. Do you have footage, screenshots or hand histories of this?

Were there ever bots on Full tilt/ pokerstars back in the golden age of online poker (say 2007-2011)? I never really heard too much about bots prior to ACR.

Its kinda sad they can't find a way to prevent bots on ACR. The company should be raking in enough money that would allow for them to hire an adequate safety team. I hate to say this but I don't think they are highely motivated to stop bots per se. Bots = more rake and more players and it doesn't seem like its a big issue to phil nagy because if it was.... he would hire the right people to eliminate bots.

Nagy wants the bots there. You can take that to the bank.

Yes, it was ridiculous. With 20bb minbuyin and generally soft games, every russian made a terrible shortstacking bot, eventually leading to games like these

And that player name is?

I think that is 100% true as well. Why remove a chunk of your income when people are still playing?

I'm sure they have enough research to show that not cracking down on bots helps their bottom line more than removing them.

This thread bums me out. I'm a rec player on ACR (micro MTTs/sng's) and preferred it over Ignition because you can know the players (and talk sh** in chat ). IDK if the bot concentration at that level is prohibitive-and I realize how absurd that sounds as I type it...."oh, there's only x% bots? I can live with that" lol. But this thread is enough to quit playing there on principle alone. I have encountered a bot at the SNG 2.0games. It was acting the exact same way Black Yukon described. So I ended up raising pre about 20 hands in a row once it got HU until it blinded out. Since I won, I just chalked it up as a one-off at the time and decided not to play those sng's anymore. I don't have HH or I would definitely include the name ITT. This is SO ##@!@ frustrating for American players-the one site that had potential full of sketch.

Thanks to HOG and other regs who are doing what they can to call this stuff out and keep sites honest.

Pssst, I would have never heard of any of this since I never frequent the "official" thread.

Now _ME_ hearing or not hearing won't have any impact nor can I assist in improving WPN; I don't play online and I don't have any expertise that can help you. However, if I only saw this due to the thread you seem to despise the same MIGHT be true of someone how can help.

It could have been a disconnect as well. The new software doesn't seem to be able to display someone who is disconnected very well at all.

I don't use a HUD on ACR and I'm not good enough to pick out specific tendencies of players in the 50NL blitz pool, even though it's relatively small, to recognize a bot.

I have some suspicions but those are more about BI amounts, positional p/f raise sizing, flop cbet sizing, and bb cold calling frequencies. These are just anecdotal from extensive note taking since I don't have a tracker.

It would be nice if people would publicly out the user names so I could develop a sense of what to look for in bottish behavior.

which 33 are you talking about was it the 33 8k?

WPN is a revolving door of bots coming and going, new account names being created and retired on a daily basis, it's been like this for years. Just look at the list of names in the initial post on this thread, many of the accounts that were active then haven't been seen in weeks.

Did WPN reimburse any players that fell victim to playing with these PLO bots?

I have submitted 3 bot reports over the past 4 months. ACR/WPN "security team" is a joke. They tell you nothing about the process. Meawhile accounts that i have recorded, written down, track how much money I personally lost continue to play for up to four days straight.

WPN is a joke. Then during their big Venom tournament they have a little video stroke-fest session with asshats like Justin Kelly and Michael Loncar reciting what they want to say. Poor Norm McDonald even played into the **** show, but the best part is when they try to dispel the bot question by talking about "two rooms". One room for bots and another called security team. They go on to claim that their bot intrusion is so low that it doesn't register in comparison to sites like Ignition, but I think it is so off the scale and thats why they don't appear on any ratings site.

Bill Nagy is a chode gargling **** toilet who is pocketing all this money that bots that WPN either ignores or is actually running to generate revenue. Then they bring in poker nobodys, build them up on their stream, and push them back out to promote how safe and secure ACR is.

If ACR really wants to step up its gaming persona they better step on the pedal and get me and the rest of us who have been impacted by these bots whether they are coming from the Eastern block of Europe/Asia or whereever. Otherwise I give two shits about their promos, monster tournaments, etc. They are just another scam site that has lured in people I know personally to represent their brand. To those people I mentioned earlier, your friends and/or people close to you have lost on average $1000 playing on ACR in the last 4 months. Maybe take Nagy's cock out of your mouth and ask some hard questions to him about what they are REALLY doing to make the REAL players whole again and protect us moving forward.

We all know though that Nagy is never going to read this or address it. He will just continue to sit on his golden toilet wiping his ass with dollar bills either indirectly/direct stole from us.

They have a list of refunds that were issued on their site. Only 4 PLO accounts were ever banned and a large portion of the refunds went to other documented, known bot accounts.

The bot situation is just as bad as it always has been. Do not trust WPN.

At the beginning of the year WPN had a promo where they claimed players would earn a 25 dollar bounus for every 250 hands of Blitz poker they played. This led to 3-4x as many players at the blitz tables. But to redeem these bonuses, players have to accumulate "AP points" based on rake. Players are supposed to receive 25 dollars for every 875 AP they accumulate.

A couple of days ago, WPN simply stopped counting AP points. Some players participated in the promotion because they thought that they would get the bonus simply from playing Blitz poker, and were probably disappointed to learn that you have to grind AP. Every player grinding AP is now disappointed to learn that they simply aren't tallying it any more.

On top of the ACR has stopped calculating CP.

Nagy always said that despite all the problems with bots/cheating over the years, one thing he prided himself on was that player got their money.

With more states making moves to allow online poker, I wonder if ACR is running a final exit scam to maximize the money they can make off a belagured player pool.

Yeah and their list is almost 8 months old. They tell you they have a highly detailed security procedure, but I call BS on that. You can't tell me they haven't found one bot in 8 months.

ACR is a just a racketeering site. Too bad poor bastards like Loncar and Justin Kelly are mixed up in it. When the seals come off their credibility is gonna be questioned.

Justin Kelly and Loncar, Tom Cannuli and Jeff Boski are all bad people.

There is no security team. I wouldn't suprised if WPN has their own hosts that directly liason with the bot operators and make sure they get preferential treatment. Like for example the massive dividend they were paid in April/May last year when the "refunds" were issued.

Exit scam is guaranteed. Only question is when it will go down.

I was answering bot questions in my PG&C and thought this might be relevant:

given the difficulty to create a winning profile, i would suspect that all the bots are run under the same syndicate. general rule on ACR - if location is eastern europe than probability of bot account is equal to 99%+.

i think the most disturbing thing about the syndicate is that they do almost nothing to avoid detection, freely allowed to fill ring games without any consequences. if they can get away with owning all lobbies and winning all rake races than the automation of card sharing would be a logical step to progress the profit of the bots.