All bots still playing.
Here's 3 of them.
wakeemup is just an aggressive/creative player.
THINK TWICE!!!! before you would join a table like this. All bots could be sharing hole cards. Depends on how many developers are involved.


Could we get an official response from iPoker regarding this situation?
Also the client has crashed 10-12 times today. I have lost money when it crashed. Totally ridiculous.

ahahahaha

ipoker knows about bots and they dont care (most of them are nl10- grinders). More then that they use their own bots. This is not nothing new tbh, they do it for more then 5y already

i suggest u find someone from hu-cartels to talk to if u wanna know more about the private real-time assistance software that is used in those games. as for commercial software, hand2note should be very much against stars tos (unless they have changed it in recent years), hem and pt were forced to delete certain functions (such as heat-maps etc) in order to stay legal like 3-4 yrs ago or smth, but hand2note still has all of them and alot more.

They know that they will go out of business without the bots.

I don't think it's a secret that I-Poker have their own bots, they used them in the past to get games going. Just a quick Google brings up a load on the subject. If they can use them then I can't see how they'll chase someone up for using one of their own.

I started a thread here on free I-Poker HUD software that told the user what to do. It crossed the line between a HUD and telling you to call, raise or fold. I-Poker want to level the field by getting everyone to churn over rake and not make any profit.

Bots have never bothered me, they still don't but I hardly play enough volume nowadays to worry about them.

Absolute nonsense- house bots on iPoker are an urban myth. It's just unfortunate that the first Google search for iPoker bots turns up a site offering services to boost traffic- but they're not associated with the iPoker brand and never have been.

IF an online site uses a bot (as has happened in the past in Blackjack and other house games) they have to be clearly labelled as such, or it's a breach of license terms.

There's no advantage to running a house poker bot; no-one is going to risk their license for a few € in rake.

I'm now 100% sure that the following players are not legitimate and are cheating in some way.
I have reported my findings to Ipoker.

I have also double checked some of the bots and used new investigation methods.
It all matches, the list I gave are 100% bots.

Waiting on iPoker to react....
I have provided them even more rock solid evidence.

Looking at the game pool 14:00 GMT, I see no bots on iPoker, but I have seen most of the bots on bet365.
I haven't even looked into 50nl bots. There could be couple more of them at bet365 premium tables.

Unfortunately I'm probably the only one who reported them. I'm also the one who can put out the strongest possible case, so they can take my word for it.

Let me give you a timeline:

- 23.1.2018 I made powerpoint presentation about bet365 bots that I sent. It contained very strong evidence that same intelligence operates multiple accounts. These players haven't been banned AFAIK
- 24.1.2018 Follow-up email where I report most of the iPoker bots as well. I also provided follow-up evidence regarding bet365 bots.
- 09.2.2018 I reporter oldtimer72 & Caligula for being bots.
- 13.2.2018 I put out a final case report that explains everything and create the thread.
- 16.2.2018 I provide more evidence regarding the mentioned 400nl+ players.

So it's been over 3 weeks and nothing has happened at bet365.

Here's a typical response that I get:

Bolded part is something new for me
Usually the response is:
Or
I'm optimistic that my case is strong enough to get all players banned.
Once you know that they are bots it's so unfair if they can continue playing.

Not sure about the entire list, but everyone who is willing to battle me HU reg vs reg at 100 is on this list...Im most suspicious about all the names with only capital letters, some of them came at the same time in the pool and play mostly during daytime which doesnt make any sense if u are that good for the limit and want max value...rly shady, Im willing to spend energy and time if we can at least get them checked by security at some serious level...

edit: im only refering to bet365 pool

Pretty weird that they're asking you to refrain from sending further information for now. They should be welcoming everything that helps their investigations.

Not if the evidence being provided is mostly nonsensical. I've not seen any on here yet.

Also pretty weird that you've only made 2 posts on 2+2 and one is denying that house bots exist (I don't actually believe in them myself either) and one alledging that OP's evidence may be nonsensical...

Yup, pretty weird. It would be ridiculous to post statements like that, unless I somehow had inside information. Which I couldn't possibly have, obviously.

I gave them a lot to chew on so I understand. Some of that information may be new to them. I don't know how many people have put 2+2 together regarding bots and see the big picture.

The evidence is very comprehensive and not just "He has high WWSF".
I gave list of ~20 names so that is a lot of investigation to do for Playtech. And FWIW I did most of the investigation for them. They would need to have some type of data specialist look over and confirm my findings.

I have asked Pontylad to review the work I've done.
Also if Internet wants to check it, reply back to me on skype. I haven't got hold of him but don't wish to spam either.


wrt. house bots.
It would be a very big PR risk to allow such thing. Playtech is a publicly traded company. Same goes for a lot of the iPoker skins.
They make their millions by running and hosting casinos, poker is just a side product.

50nl can always run even without bots. On 100nl there would be less tables and not even the bots actively start 200, they just keep the game going. Most of the iPoker bots don't play HU.
For game quality it's much better to not have the bots.
One less bot = one more seat at the table. If that's a weaker player, everyone benefits and keeps coming back to the site.

Bots are biggest leeches in the poker economy since they operate from unfair standpoint. They kill winrates for recreationals and regulars. I bet there could be regs who quit iPoker since they couldn't win (partly due to the bots).
If the bots never existed, you would still have those regs grinding the games.
So in other words bots leech the system and never have to deposit. It's very bad PR if the word about bots gets out. It may result in regulars mass leaving. Or if someone googles "bet365 bots".

I have seen midstakes bots crush the games. And 20-50nl bots could be programmed by 400nl player. Not all the bots on Bet365 are very good.

Here's a few graphs.
Pumpkinshtein. I studied him the least, but he is either human playing 100% perfect aggressive poker, or a bot. Easier to go with the latter. The rest of the people on my list I studied comprehensively.
Had a quick look at him and found evidence for a bot. Not everything matches though.


There's one place where you could get more information from *if you know what I mean*

If anyone has bigger sample on the players mentioned, like >30k hands please post here.

From MS-HS pov, this isn't accurate. From the pov of site operators, they don't really give a **** if the regs are bots or humans. The argument only starts to have some merit when the bots are busted and site get bad PR.

Also bots don't kill recs winrate, pretty sure recs lose way more vs legit players compared to bots.

In cashgames pokersites make money from rake, rake is being paid when games run, games run when there's a rec playing. At MS-HS it doesn't really matter if some regs quit as there are always enough regs to fill a table with a rec.

Exception are tablestarters that probably make recs join a bit more to teh games.

Clearly don't have any balls given you've clearly created a new account solely to post on this thread

Shill is banned.

This might sound offensive but it's not the intention;

I think you really should team up with respectable people who can weigh in on your methods if you want to drop names and/or post your exact method of detection. This is just blurting names with no good reason and it seems highly inappropriate.

Being Fishtankz you have less credibility than an unknown imho since it's clear for all to see that you are oblivious to the current meta. Not saying that makes you a terrible player, just that it's much tougher for you to sell the benefit of the doubt card in terms of having the ability to tell a strong modern reg from a bot statistically.

Even the excellent and well respected players who outed bots in the past generally posted their exact detection methods, despite having much less of a need to do so to be taken seriously.

I have a dilemma where if I reveal too much then bot programmers can take advantage of it. And from strategic standpoint I don't wish to reveal it all to fellow regs.
Detecting bots is like 2 + 2 + 2 + 2= 8 for me. All logic.

I have messaged Internet on skype & sent PM to pontylad. Haven't heard back.

I realized this problem and it's the reason why I want to take the thread down and have it deleted. Mods haven't responded to PM's I sent.
It's up to iPoker now to make the judgement on those players.
My original intent was to just share the list and let people know that 200+ can be bot infested / real-time assisted. And that long term winning "regs" can be well programmed bots. Who would have even thought of such thing if it wasn't for this thread?
I wouldn't do this if I wasn't 100% confident that something is seriously wrong with the players mentioned. Like I said I spent 20-30 hours studying this issue.
What you might also imply is that those bots would be ahead in the meta-game and I just don't understand their strategy. That's not true. Since doing more studying with solver I understand 99% of the players now and studying the bots even helped me in this regards.


I'm not offended what you said about me. I use bigger cbet sizings since I multitable and that's why people think I'm out of the current meta.
I happen to know the current meta very well. It hasn't changed much since I played on Stars 1½ years ago. I was aware of the current meta-game considerations even back then. Now that I started using solvers more I'm once again up to date.
Thing is, you always have to adjust your playing style vs current opponents and how they think. I also play a lot of tables and I have adjusted my strategy accordingly.


Another reason why I wanted to make this thread is to question whether bots can kill winrates for regulars. I haven't heard from anyone in this regards.
SalmoTrutta, if you were playing vs 5bb+ bots (pre-RB), your winrate would go down as well. This is another issue I wanted to bring up.
I also went through a huge downswing during January where I lost big pots endlessly.

So mods please pay attention.

Also we are dealing with highest level of bots here.
I have VERY GOOD REASONS to hide information. The future of small stakes+ is at stake here.

Here is something really funny... EVERYONE from the bet365 bot list is NOT regged for the promo freerolls at end of the month, almost every other reg is already regged since its pretty easy to make the missions. i understand if some of them are not regged, but all of them is rly ****ing suspicious...

Yes, it is definitely suspicuous.. most of the names from the list never sit out. Also I feel like they are not table selecting much or join a table when rec comes while other (normal) regs join fast.

hmm I'm not a bot but I don't know anything about promo or missions

fishtankz' accusations are 100% credible.

this stuff is real. and many times more relevant than chicagoJoey attentionwhoring for his youtube channel!