You need to register details when you sign up with bodog, which includes picking a screenname/username/loginname. Bodog itself can see this information

There is more than 1 bot ring worldwide

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Wrt to how the providers see anonymous players - they're not anonymous on their database, you absolute helmets.

Can confirm a change in Zone poker play. Decided to do a short stack at 200nl the other day (no 100nl Zone). could not believe the calls I was getting. Obviously ended up (did not play a short stacking style).

There is also a drop in traffic at the times they were playing. However, they were easy to spot from 25nl up (don't know about the lower levels). If using PLO bots, from 10nl up, these guys are easy to best (probably due to lack of cohesive hud stats).

Durr

They’ve been in zone for years. I’d choose to play against a meh bot than an expert human. But the point is bots destroy the player pool. They crush fish. The few regs that figured out the optimal strat vs the bot ring crushed. At least until the bots adjusted.

This botring is the one orchestrated by PokerBrave(the person that has been supplying the community with italian accounts for a few years(he's the original dollaro account guy), also one of the first to rent accounts on bodog to bots and russian players.)

It's one of the weaker bots, the top notch bots on party and stars are not going anywhere. Party and stars have all the info to remove them and they simply refuse to acknowledge it because their botting/user info is very high quality and if there was ever a judicial investigation it would be easy to claim that they were too good to be caught as the only people who know of this are the few poker players constantly fighting bots and there's no documented proof. The poker sites keep the important people out of it, its just the front end monkeys that ever communicate with the community.

I have not played poker in 1.5 year now and i'd bet everything i have that i could still identify every single bot on party with 100% accuracy with only 40-50 hand samples. It's always crazy obvious.

Even the bot that has only been used on 1 account, that has never shared its profile ever and was 100% built from scratch (ie not using any code from any other sources)?

Bots are unstoppable. It takes skill and brains to build a bot. Russia and Ukraine economy is crap. I don’t see them stopping any time soon. Geo restricting isn’t effective either. But for the sake of argument let’s say the sites somehow prevent any Ukrainian or Russian from playing. These guys will just sell the software down the line and history repeats itself.

We're all getting bot ****ed.

It is foolish to suggest bots are all Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian, etc.... plenty in this ring was out of South America. The company creates the bot and then pays people to download, set up an account on a poker site, verify the account, and then they send in screen shots at the start and finish of every session.

If suspicions are confirm, the people that claim this is an eastern European issue will be speechless.

While "the company" would have several people running the day to day operations, its not like they are contacting every individual whose documents they have to load up the bot & poker software, take a screenshot, press run, and then take a screenshot at the end of every session every day (IMO). There is a reason that pretty much every screenshot I saw is running teamviewer, on what appears to be a VM (in a lot of cases)

Its most likely a couple of employees running tens of accounts each per day remotely from wherever they are based

the bodog screenshot above is of plo

I was perusing the discord of ant0hin's (he's a member on this forum) RTA software and all of those guys are told to use Teamviewer and a remote virtual server at all times.

I've got absolutely no idea if this info is at all relevant, mind you.

TylerRM

I recognize the name "sanzioraffag" from sisal.it
i played with him many hands and sessions on nl100.
He played a crazy amount of hands and never tilted one time, i was always suspicious of that and some other players (regs) there.
i just written with the live-chat, but they say a link in a forum and an accusation is not enough to investigate a player.

OP u contacted www.sisal.it (Sisal group in Italy) allrdy?
thx for the work!

Yeah. You see team viewer in the screenshots. The people that sign up under them are all over. Real people, the document folder omitted has all the photos used for account verification. Selfies, holding ID, closeup of Passports, bank statements, utility bills, etc...

My guess, purely, is they find people in places they can pay less of the winnings to but that will make a difference to those that sign up.

The few sites that were all regional-centric I had a tough time contacting anyone specific. If you know of any at the site, please forward them the link to this. I'd be happy to forward them the entire file, unredacted...to whatever extent it was.

Can you give examples of what you mean by the bolded please (ie who are "they", "people", "they" & "those that sign up"?

unfortunately i dont know anyone specific.
i just contacted the support as a registered and verified player from Italy,
but like i said, they wont listen to me.

could u please use this mail to contact them = giochi@sisal.it

thank you for your effort!

Bot farm corporation finds random people that want to grant access to the computer. Random person signs up at sites, verifies account, downloads software, and (I believe) they operate the bot although operate is probably an overstatement. The screenshots of the start and end session suggests they are not maintained/operated live on a remote basis by the bot farm corporation staff. Teamviewer does seem to be visible in every screenshot almost. O think it might have to do with how they set it up more than active play.

This is a set of instructions they had for masking the registry files to evade detection....

1. File > Open File - choose process (calc or generator)
2. Left part of program press "+" folder "version" and press there.
3. Double click on line need to be changed (contains the "calc" name) at input unique name that need to match a real programm.
4. After all changes press "File > Save" and after closure it will ask to save again.
Save this FAQ
Regarding coming up with names, through this program you can first open the EXE file of any other program and see how everything is filled in it and reproduce the same
Every "GG" need to be filled with unique data. The point is that, during a potential bot-check from security, the room would not see an identical process in different accounts. Now this common process is "calc", if this process is changed everywhere to a "media player", then it turns out everywhere there will be a "media player", so you need to use different variations
in addition

in addition, you need to rename the executable file
and add the setting (calcWindowText = "xxxxxx"), where in the place "xxxxxx" you need to enter the name that will be displayed in the program header at startup
you can check that everything is done correctly through the task manager where the bot process will be displayed with the names that we input as the name of the process and its description

There is also the effort in correctly setting up the bot and its programming. It's what I believe took place. I would not swear that it is or is not 100% accurate.

Will send off now

IMO it does not work like this. Way too much trust in random people. How would deposing and withdrawing work? I doubt that many people running such a "business" are giving hundreds of random people a couple of hundred - couple of thousand $$ each and hoping that they follow the instructions correctly

IMO, more than like it is the "Bot farm corporation" ie the company who is buying/leasing the bot software finds people who are willing to sell "themselves" (ie give passport, address verification, bank statements, TIM ID, etc, for a couple of hundred dollars, with the agreement that if more documents/pictures are required the person will furnish the company with them - maybe for an additional payment). The company employees then create a VM and set the IP location / tech details of it to be near where the person who gave their identity is based. The company employees then set up that VM fully with everything that is needed, the bot software, the poker software etc. The company employees then create the poker accounts as well as a skrill account (or other payment processor) on that VM, deposit, contact the poker site if verification of documents etc is needed. The company employee then presses play, does screenshots, etc, running the bot/poker software

The person who gave their documents might have no idea what those documents are being used for. That person might get some sort of bonus of winnings, but I highly highly doubt it. CPA is much cheaper than Rev Share in the long run. As I said before, that person would prolly receive $100-$200 for a ton of documents and then maybe $50-$100 more each time something new was requested by a site that might be investigating the account. The person would never be in contact with the poker site directly. This would all be handled by the company employees

Presuming that these bots do not need any human input (bar pressing "Run" & "Stop" and to check log files if something goes wrong) and are fully automated, rather than a real time assist type software. This means that 1 company employee can easily run 20+ bot accounts (on the same amount of VMs) at the same time

Start/end screenshots could simply be proof of a couple of things:

1) Record keeping to know exact funds on each account at all times, which would also show profit/loss in each session
2) Record keeping to know how long the company employees spent working each day, if they are on an hourly rate it might help verify/prove how much to pay them
3) Record keeping for the company owners to show them that the bots are not just being run 24/7 (or massive sessions each day) which even the most basic of sites should be looking out for

Again, all of the above is a guess as I do not know exactly how this particular ring ran. But it seems much easier to contain information etc, along with much less risk of theft/tilt if its a couple of company employees running everything account related, rather than tens/hundreds of randoms

Could be, honestly dont know.

I have to look into the document and notes folder more to see if there is any further direction.

I agree with this almost entirely.

I think is highly unlikely a creator of such a program would trust random hundreds of people. Especially in such countries, where such a high balance could be easily stolen or bragged about. The bankroll needed to play such stakes is a **** ton of money in eastern Europe.

Another factor that suggests they are not actual people operating the bot, is that knowing Eastern European mentality myself, this wouldnt be kept safe this long. It would be gossiped about immediately on the Russian forums. I highly doubt the people who provided the personal info know whats going on.
If somebody wanted to do this, we could contact one of the younger people from the list and try asking them a few questions anonymously.

I would also assume the documents, names and everything else was bought, rather than real people behind the PC. That would also explain why there are some people who are 60+ y.o. according to the documents. They for sure dont play online poker, let alone operate some kind of bot.

The VM operation could be easy. You can use something like hyperV to run multiple VMs on the same computer or even a server. From the top of my head, the implementation of this would take a few days, definitely not more.
Also would make sense to run like this, because it would be much easier for the solver programme to solve the hands in one place, rather than run it on separate computers.

Why there is the presence of TeamViewer, I dont know. What also comes to mind could be that the actual poker room is ran on a real computer of some person in a specific place, and their only obligation is to connect to a TeamViewer, through which the bot operator/ bot itself can control the decisions in game and also see the action.

I don't believe anybody has posted this in here yet. The interview is about bots and this data leak. I guess this interview was published a few days before this data dump was made public. Sorry I don't have the time to translate the whole thing right now.

https://www.gipsyteam.ru/news/7154-t...kerom-do-konca

Looking forward and even present, is this really going to change anything? Are a lot of these sn’s still active? Don’t the rings constantly change sn (on ACR they seem to at least)? Are these sites going to be able to take money from these accounts to reimburse, or were they already withdrawn?