So you do care about the rake, but you could care less about it. Right?

I would be glad to donate my buyin too charity its not about a hand out its about accountability and I keep reading poor borgata its in DGE hands. Plan and simple borgata just does not wanna dig into there pockets and hidding behind DGE. The ceo of borgata dge and all these intelligent lawyers couldn't come up with solution yet not possible. Its all crap and people especially the top 27 are being manipulated by corporate greed its all about money not players getting a fair shack thats whats angering so many players in my opinion

None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes. And if I were CEO I wouldn't pay out a dime until I knew for sure who the DGE was going to make me reimburse and how much.

But the fact that they are having another major tourney series starting on April 8th without any clear apology along with their outline on steps they are taking to make sure it will never happen again is completely unfathomable to me. Very unprofessional. One of the 27 is saying he is going in part to get some "face time" with some big guys at Borgata. Are you kidding me?

A few weeks ago I took Borgata's free room and hung out with friends. But we didn't spend a dime at the Borg. Went out elsewhere for a nice steak dinner, some bar hopping, and a little pit action. And I typically play a few events in the Spring. Not this time. Just booking a longer Vegas trip.

It looks like the Borgata is just hiding behind the DGE. If they wanted to, they could push the NJDGE for a resolution. It's not their money so there is no reason for them to push the issue.
We all know most players that played in it do not deserve a refund (People are going to say trickle/butterfly effect but most busted without even playing on his table) but a cheater was able to slip through and play on so out of good will they should refund the players that played on the same days out of their pocket.
The 27 players are the ones that deserve the rest of the prize pool to get that far and for it to come to a halt is just brutal. Let's just hope the DGE makes the right decision for the remaining 27 and the rest of the field.

I find this funny. People on this thread not only blame Lusardi for knocking them out but somehow he is also the reason that the 27 players remain.

Get a clue. The 27 remaining players (assuming none are involved) made it there despite the cheater not because of the cheater.

By your logic everyone in the tournament that ever sat at his table gained an advantage because of the "maniac with fake chips"

To many people are drinking the Borgata koolaid. The Borgata has been watering down there events for a couple years now and it's all about the bottom line. It was only a couple years ago that they got the state to let them withold the 3% for dealers. No One begrudges dealers there fair pay but the Borgata used that in negotiation on there pay thus using our rake to keep wages lower. That 15% food discount voucher we get with our buy in can't even be used at the tournament room cafe. In fact it can't be used at the majority of places in the Borgata. The rake has increased every other year. By injecting blackjack dealers with no live experience they were able to capture every entry out there again giving up quality for the bottom line. I have to say the
Wsop here at Cherokee may be a bit steep in it's rake but they sure put on a good tournament.

Looks like an apology

Thus far, investigators have found that one or more tournament entrants improperly introduced a significant number of counterfeit chips into the tournament, gaining an unfair advantage and compromising the integrity of play for the event,” said Tom Ballance, Borgata President and COO.

The remaining prizepool, a total of $1,433,145, will be held in a trust until the investigation is completed.

“It is extremely unfortunate that the criminal actions of these individuals can have a detrimental impact on more than 4,000 other entrants,” Ballance said. “We fully understand and regret the disappointment this cancellation causes our valued customers, and we will work diligently with DGE investigators to resolve the situation as quickly as possible. The integrity of our games and the confidence of our players is of the utmost importance to us.”

Realistically some of the remaining 27 probably overcame a disadvantage against him, while others likely benefitted from him. It stands to reason if he was splashing around a lot and you also had a big stack, he was on your right and you and were a good player, it was +EV to have him at your table. If he was on your left, it was -EV. If you were playing tight, he might have run you over and that was -EV.

Lots of variables to consider, but to blanket say that everyone made it there in spite of him and overcame longer odds is obviously inaccurate and biased.

This is coming from someone who played Day 1B, busted, and does not feel that he is owed a refund. My take all along has been that the remaining 27 have to be chopped in some fashion (likely a mix of chip chop and straight chop), and that it was up to the Borgata if they wanted to refund the rest out of their own pocket for PR reasons and to avoid any potential legal battles. The only thing I do feel some right to, but don't expect to get anyway, is the vig the Borgata made. I don't think they should profit off this event.

All that said, you can't just act like all of the remaining 27 were at a bigger disadvantage because of him and overcame it. Obviously some of them would have benefitted, which was to the detriment of others.

Not saying that we were any more disadvantage than anyone else that played but at the same time you can say we were given an advantage just because we made it to the final 27

Some were, some weren't. Just like some who were at an advantage didn't make the 27, and some at a disadvantage did make the 27. The point a lot of people are making is that the outcome is different than it would have been if he hadn't cheated. Regardless, I can't see any solution being fair that doesn't pay out the remaining 27 in some sort of chop.

I disagree. Borgata can do whatever they please, with their own money. They just can't touch the tournament money that's in escrow.

I just don't see why Borgata ' didn't get out in front of the story' and refund everyone who bought in and ICM the final 27 players. They don't need permission from the DGE to use their own money to do this....unless.....

unless.......unless....

they are going to screw the players somehow.

When did Lusardi get eliminated? I don't think he was that close to the final three tables so most of the 27 were probably not impacted. Though those that were impacted, probably benefitted. By the simple fact that they are in the 27 as opposed to the rail. That's just common sense.

lol

As I recall he seemed to dump rather quickly. The speculation was that he got wind of a possible chip scandal brewing and wanted to get out.

One or more of the final 27 could have been a beneficiary of that chip dump.

No.

The defendant in a lawsuit doesn't have to prove a thing. It is the plaintiff that has to prove his case by a preponderance of the evidence.

I'm not sure, as the Borgata already admitted that the tourney was compromised.

It's like a drunk driver admitting that he hit a pedestrian but then claiming he only broke the guy's leg, he had nothing to do with the cut on his head.

I think that aspect is debatable. Tourney wass compromised, they admitted it, and the DGE shut it down. Unless they can account for how all of those chips got in, I think that means refunds for all.

Immediately after this chip scandal occurred, other poker rooms around the country started implementing some common sense measures, such as having the dealer/floor verify chip counts at the end of the day before bagging ang tagging, so that if the numbers were wildly off at the end of a particular day they would have a better handle on whether chips had been brought in. This is just one of several increased security measures I saw at other casinos in the aftermath if chipgate.

Your beloved Borgata, however, still refused to do that simple matter of accounting for their Main Event, 2 weeks later. Meaning every other poker room took notice of added security issues EXCEPT the one which had had the major problem.

Borgata has been a leader, has listened to players, and has been a great place to play in the past. Whether they continue to be is yet to be seen. Remember that the Bellagio not that long agao was once home to the most prestigious tournaments in Vegas...and not they're not even a contender. How the Borgta handles this could make all the difference as to whether they stay on top or start that quick slide down.

This statement is correct for a criminal case. This is a civil case and the burden or proof requirements are different for civil cases. With that said, the tournament was definitely compromised, so the guilty party that is primarily responsible for this compromise is not Borgata.

No he was exactly correct that is the standard of proof in a civil case. The plaintiff must prove their case by a preponderance of the evidence. In a criminal case the prosecution has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

It seems like we are in the damage phase. Borgata has already admitted that they are guilty of running a compromised tourney.

It would seem wrong if they said something like, "Well, we have no clue how all of these chips got in, but we know for sure certain Day 1s were not affected."

Thusly I think details/proof must be provided if Borgata/DGE do not provide refunds to all

When they pulled the 27 of us aside to tell us the tournament was cancelled there was one player particularly enraged who said "2015 if we're lucky!" in regards to a timeframe for us getting our payouts. this player delivered a lengthy diatribe regarding his unpleasant dealings with the DGE and the fallacy that the Borgata had our backs.....I half mocked him internally. My apologies sir.

That was probably the most idiotic post in this entire thread so far. I have been following this thread since it started, and I've read every single post.

I think the only thing that is blatantly obvious here is that you did not play in this event, so you should keep your 100% opinions to yourself. I fired 4 bullets, and I played each Day 1.

What you are failing to realize is that --> Day 1A + Day 1B + Day 1C = Day 1
The main reason there are different flights is because they can't fit all the players who want to enter the tournament into just one flight. Just because the Borgata puts a label on people who are playing 7 hours after another group of players with a different label does NOT mean that they aren't part of the same Day 1. Just because the Borgata paid out a bonus to the chip leader of each flight does NOT mean that players who played in Day 1A were participating in a completely different event then those who played Day 1B. When you calculate the average chip stack at the beginning of Day 2 you take the players who advanced from every flight into account. NOT just the players who advanced from the flight you played in.

It is ridiculous of you to say that the players in Day 1B who never sat at a table with Lusardi deserve a refund, while all the other Day 1 players don't. It doesn't matter what flight you played, if you played any Day 1 you were in the same tournament as Lusardi, and everyone who didn't sit with him was equally affected. It's time to drop the idea that refunds should be given based on the flight you entered. Every single player was in the same event playing Day 1, doesn't matter if they were playing 7 hours before Lusardi or 7 hours after him.

The tournament was cancelled, no one should have to deal with a loss here besides the Borgata. It is just as important to give refunds to everyone who entered as it is to make sure the remaining 27 are taken care of and fairly compensated. Anyone who didn't play in this event who is trying to justify why only one of these groups or parts of these groups should be taken care of while the rest should be neglected - should be embarrassed with themselves. It's distasteful to say anything aside from everyone deserves to be treated right, not just the select few that you deem worthy.





Side note
"All we've seen are people trying to rationalize a way to profit from the situation."

Please tell me how getting a refund of exactly the same dollar amount that you spent to buy in to this tournament could ever be considered a profit? I think you need to look up the meaning of that word. Especially after you take into account travel, hotel, and living expenses spent just to be able to play in the event...after refunds most people still wouldn't even come close to breaking even.

Anyway, after all that being said maybe I'm completely wrong and I'm the idiot for thinking that everyone should be treated fairly, and that anyone who didn't play in this event should stop accusing everyone who did play in the event of just wanting handouts.

This is a civil case. I just have to suggest the theory is possible. For this purpose, with the number of chips found in the hotel room, its not likely he was planning to work alone the entire time.

Also, if all players on Lusardi's day are refunded, what about the player who busted out 5 minutes into Lusardi's day before any tables broke and he wasn't at Lusardi's table. Why is that player refunded and no other that 'couldn't possibly be affected' on other day ones?

The burden of proof in a civil case is by a preponderance of the evidence.

The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond reasonable doubt.

I agree and stand corrected. Don't mind admitting when I am wrong.