Borgata didn't cancel the tournament. The state of New Jersey cancelled the tournament. That's a material difference.

does this lusardi bozo have a facebook or twitter

First, numerous people have insulted your posts. I did because you have thrown out legal theories and terminology and, in each instance, you have used them incorrectly. When you begin you theories with "from a legal standpoint" i assume you have some type of legal training and your complete lack of understanding the fundamentals is very annoying.

It was reported itt that he removed his facebook before he was busted.

As someone who played in this event, including day 2, and cashed at 236th, I feel both lucky and pissed off. Glad I got my entry back with a little profit, but I traveled 8hrs and spent 3 nights in AC for this tournament with the chance at winning big. Once this moron corrupted the tournament with a huge amount of fake chips, no one had a chance to collect top prize. They would have eventually realized they had too many 5k chips after event ended and not payed. It took a call from Harrahs for them to catch on to it. I'm curious as to how this happened, whether a few at a time while sitting at table, or large amounts during a table change, or both.

Does the Borgata legally owe me anything...probably not.
Do they owe the 27 players left...absolutely.
Should they offer some kind of partial refund or freeroll...I think so, they are partially responsible by allowing this to happen.

God forbid I add a couple of speculative posts to an informal discussion thread.

Anyway, I will go back to lurking and leave you to your condescending snark.

Best idea yet!

OK answer it in all of these hypotheticals:

1) Tournament never canceled, you bust Day 1
2) Tournament canceled with 9 players remaining, you bust Day 1
3) Tournament never canceled, you end Day 1 with 150k chips, you bust Day 3 for $0
4) Tournament canceled with 9 players remaining, you end Day 1 with 150k chips, you bust Day 3 for $0
5) Tournament never canceled, you double through the fake chips guy on Day 1 and cash for $25,000
6) Tournament canceled with 9 players remaining, you double through the fake chips guy on Day 1 and cash for $25,000
7) You make the November 9 with the shortest stack, tournament is canceled, you get an even chop worth $2.1M

Never said it was easy. I said it could happen at any casino.

Borgata got tagged this time. That doesn't mean other locations you may or may not take your poker business too, can't be corrupted as well.

kinda fell behind in this thread.. have they seriously not made a statement yet? I assume they are hiding behind the gaming commission?

sooo, the 27 that we're left haven't been paid, the tournament is cancelled, and... what?

this is insane. I can only imagine what those 27 must be feeling

No but Thu Le still has her FB up along with Johnny Le

What does that matter?

Easy answer. He is a stalker and looking for someone new to troll.

What is a reasonable level of liability for a casino that wasn't able to ensure the integrity of its event? Is it just the rake? Is it rake + buy-in? Do they have zero liability?

If they are shown to be negligent, then what is the scope of that negligence?

These don't seem like outlandish questions to me.

it feels like crap, im one of the 27 left and all myself and the others have received is one email saying that "chipgate" is still under investigation..... your right, what next? whats our recourse? how long should one wait before seeking legal counsel?

I do things other than poker. I'm a rec, poker is a small part of my time. I may just chose to stay home and drink a bottle of scotch by myself. I have choices, bro

I'm not outraged, but I'm leaning towards thinking the Borg should do something for all players. Thus I am less enthused to schedule time off from work, book the hotel, and play in their tournaments in the future.

It can happen somewhere else, sure. But their tourneys are smaller with a lot less chaos. It's less of a probability.

Neither do the ones I keep posing to you that you keep refusing to answer.

Negligence is a reasonableness test, not a "could you have possibly prevented this" test. Given that Borgata's measures were basically the same as every other casino that runs major poker tournaments, my guess is that no finder of fact would rule Borgata negligent in the matter, unless there is additional information we are not privy too currently.

SO answer my questions, estimating your damages in those 7 scenarios.

Did the email you got from Borgata actually refer to this as "chipgate"?

They must think they are very clever, if that's really what they did.

I have a lot of opinions on this whole thing, but one thing for sure is that the lack of communication is completely inexcusable. Even if there is nothing to report, they should give updates anyway.

"So sorry but there is no new information yet, but please be patient as we work to come to some sort of resolution." They have twitter and facebook and access to these forums, and I do not think it is too much to ask for a periodic "hey we haven't forgotten about this" report.

If they are under orders to withhold comment pending the results of the investigation, then say that.

You say that with the certainty that it's a self-evident fact that they aren't liable at all.

I'd be willing to bet someone will bring a lawsuit against Borgata. And perhaps your opinion will ultimately prove to be correct - but certainly someone could challenge the extent to which the casino took reasonable steps to prevent this debacle. I mean, at minimum, it's up for debate.

My damages are the same in all of those scenarios - buy-in + rake. (Excluding a scenario where I've already cashed.)

Damages
1-5) 60.00
5,6) 0.00
7) interesting question.

no, they didnt refer to this as "chipgate" they simply stated that someone was apprehended and the investigation is continuing. this was ok, but if they would give a weekly update, i would definitely feel more at ease than just sitting here waiting.

Again, you show you have literally no idea how damages are calculated. How did you suffer $10,000 in damages if a WSOP ME is ultimately cancelled due to activity that didn't impact you, and you busted out before it occurred? How did you suffer $10,000 in damages if a WSOP ME is ultimately cancelled due to activity that BENEFITTED your chances from profiting in the tournament (the situations where you doubled up through the cheater)?

Very specifically, how did you suffer $10k in damages in situations where the tournament wasn't canceled?

What if you bust out on Day 1 of the WSOP ME, and then before the November 9 plays out, Las Vegas is nuked, and the tourney is cancelled? Are your damages now $10,000? If so, LOL. If not, why not?

BTW, let's assume that the 180k is introduced gradually, as there actually could be a negligence issue if someone just starts the tourney with 180k ha.

Keep in mind, negligence means not doing something that any reasonable person in the same situation would have done, or doing something that a reasonable person would not have done. What specific actions that the Borgata took/failed to take do you think depart for the standard of care implemented by every casino in the US that runs similar tournaments?

Anyone who defends borgata and says they weren't negligent and it's not in anyway their fault. I want you to walk into borgata go into tab'a office you can turn the lights on or off but proceed to get on your knees and show your affection for borgata.

Keep in mind, negligence means not doing something that any reasonable person in the same situation would have done, or doing something that a reasonable person would not have done. What specific actions that the Borgata took/failed to take do you think depart for the standard of care implemented by every casino in the US that runs similar tournaments?

Well, we finally agree pipes.

And I do understand where you are coming from being a Rec player like yourself.