Skallagrim you cant really be surprised at people's doubts of the PPA when most online players now cant play online or can but not without fear of losing more money to the DOJ. And the PPA was/is supposed to be the group that was supposed to prevent this from happening. It's the same as people getting pissed off at their politicians when they make a decision once it office that is opposite of what they promised when they were running for office.

You're the voice of the poker playing community no matter how lazy we are or appear to be the PPA was supposed to make up for this. It's wonderful that you guys paid for poker players legal fee's in some of the major busts that went down. But I'm sure most people that are playing 1/2,2/5...etc games in clubs could afford their own attny' fees it would be better if you guys advised those players rather then paying for their attny's. I'm pretty sure most of your donors where donating for the fight of online poker not illegal clubs/home games. I would think most online players point of view the PPA is supposed to be more about getting the UIGEA thrown out or at least reworded to put online poker on the OK list rather then on the banned list. It sucks that home games and clubs are getting raided but that was/is always a risk when playing in those settings even if poker is legal in casino's in said region.

FWIW: I don't even play online I'm more of a live player (club,Home Games and casino's) and every time I would go to an illegal club or home game I knew the risk when I did make my deposit online I figured it was safe since online poker is legal. FWIW: This is as much the online sites fault for promoting the legality of their business in the US as it is the PPA's fault for not fighting harder for online poker and putting financial resources towards live players that are not broke and knowingly taking the risk of playing in those arena's.

This is just the way I see and it probably makes no difference.

The point is. Worry more about online poker then the live players (like myself) that are knowingly taking part in an illegal activity in an illegal arena. I'm also assuming you're getting more donations from the online community then the live community. So thats where your resources should be focused.

Sorry for ranting and most likely repeating myself multiple times. And for my fellow online players but we are more aware of the risk then the online players were.

To the people comparing the PPA to MLK Jr or the gay and lesbians just stop now. It's a horrible comparison. Don't try to compare the plight of millions being treated as second class citizens to poker players.

I was not comparing online poker to the civil rights movement of the 60's just like you were not comparing yourself to Ghandi .. lol @ you twisting things

PPA + Respected Media Firm ≠ automatic endorsements from celebs, press conferences on the capitol steps, and continuous media coverage in the headlines. Just because you ask and even push for those things doesn’t mean that those who control the media will respond. We’re not feeding the poor here, we’re not trying to improve the environment. We’re fighting to play poker online. It’s important to us but it’s NOT a sympathetic cause whatsoever. We are on the inside and recognize that our freedoms are being violated, that our ability to earn a living has been quashed. But to many people our fight is akin to gaining support for eating our young (yes, just a smidgen of hyperbole).

How do we make it a sympathetic cause? By putting real faces to this story, by having our voices heard, our stories heard. We shift the story from being about poker to being about people. Guess what? We’re those people. The PPA has been on 2+2 requesting and cataloging our stories. They are contacting us now asking if we would be willing to become a face for our fight in the media. Are we going to stand up and say “Yes?” Or are we going to retreat back behind our computers and hope that the almighty “someone else” will take care of it for us?

For those suggesting that the PPA has simply gathered donations and sat around, perhaps you should look at their primary focus -- lobbying in DC. In fact, their financials demonstrate that's exactly where the funds have gone. Could the PPA do a better job at communication regarding those efforts throughout the year (not just when a public push is apparent i.e. Reid Bill late '10)? Yeah, probably so. But would you pay attention and see those efforts as being of value? Or do we just think that Matt Damon making a statement on Letterman will solve our problems (or course that would require Mr. Damon to actually respond to requests and agree to speak on our behalf)?

Why not do some research and ask questions of the PPA directly regarding all of the various lobbying efforts that have taken place over the last year primarily in DC, but in other states as well (Washington State, for example). The PPA is a small organization in DC terms -- incredibly small. We're sitting at the kids table for Thanksgiving dinner, for goodness sakes. You want that to change? Then either get more directly involved in the PPA so you can have your say and have your concerns heard to your satisfaction or start your own group...... all the complaining and whining and pure vitriol (most of it not based on facts but merely regurgitated sentiments from others) is mind bogglingly frustrating.

So true....maybe stars should have used the 10 mil they used to buy sun bank for buying a politician or two, or sinking the money into lawyers working on legalization. Heartbreaking

It's illegal for foreign companies/entities to make contributions/campaign donations to US politicians.

And how many people showed up to support the civil right's march's? How many poker players have shown up at rally's that have been promoted? We've had a couple here WA State and the turn out was paltry -- we're talking less than 30 people.......

MLK's movement was only as strong as the people who supported the movement.

Perhaps that example should be a kick in our collective pants.

Basically, people either didn't care enough to research more or just assumed everything would be ok. It was fairly common knowledge (or easy to stumble upon if you read a bit of 2p2) that payment processors were getting owned, and people didn't connect the dots for one reason or another.

I'm not really voicing my opinion of the PPA, but what Skallagrim says here is true. When the 15 month blackout period was being discussed TheEngineer and Skallagrim were both saying that the status quo is unacceptable and SOMETHING needs to be done. They were attacked on 2p2 for a variety of reasons (one I remember was that they were only supporting the legislation because of political reasons, there were others obv), and now **** has actually hit the fan (like they said it might) and everyone is blaming them for not doing anything!

edit: I don't mean to rant, but really if there was ever a time to push for legalisation of poker THIS IS IT. Yes, it sucks that Black Friday happened. However poker is now more in the spotlight than ever and if the DOJ is already feeling heat for freezing player accounts from the relatively little that we (poker community, PPA, whatever) did then we need to keep applying the same pressure. People complaining about the PPA should instead be doing everything they can to help out. Visit one of the threads linked earlier in here, sign up or create a local support group, if you are going to bitch about poker being ****ed up then you might as well take action to improve the situation.

Skall: The fact that you haven't quit the PPA after all the sh*t you've taken during the past few days and when the Reid bill went down shows just how tough you are. Keep on fighting for us, man.

I suggest that everybody who's ripping Skall and the PPA redirect their energies toward the DOJ and the U.S. government for taking away our rights. Infighting isn't going to help any of us.

Thats because their fight was just a tad bit more important then the legalization of online poker. Are poker players going to get blasted with firehose's and beaten by cops/national guard for their right to play poker? NO they cant even leave their house to go to a rally even pot heads go outside for pro-pot rallies.

Just stop making these comparisons please.

Lol at you, he didn't even come up with the comparison.....

His point is very clear (and legitimate), you're just being a nit about it. There is room for us to do a lot here, sure we won't start up an Egypt-esque street war over our rights to play poker. But people protest all sorts of **** ALL THE TIME. Poker is obviously a very small issue for the population but that doesn't mean we can't kick up a huge storm about it to let everyone know what is happening and pressure the government as much as possible. Protesting for poker != getting beaten by cops.

And hey, I'd probably take a beating from police if poker was my job and the movement was big enough. Lucky its not I guess!

The sites did try that and now its backfiring, esp PS when it got a NV lawmaker to propose "their" LOL bill in NV. The sites gave money indirectly through different PACs to lawmakers and to the PPA. Now these site are "toxic" politically and lawmakers will want to stay far away. I just hope they don't run from groups like the PPA because of this.

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/vi...ution-Fallout/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/us..._r=1&src=twrhp

http://www.lvrj.com/business/some-la...120139609.html

Right or wrong we players and the PPA need to distance ourselves from these now indicted sites. They are politically toxic and while we are pushing for legal regulated poker can't be associated with these sites right now.

Here's my suggestion for what the PPA should do; FIRE D'AMATO!!! I've seen him referred to in this thread as "respected senator" and suggested that he has a lot of pull from his 20 years' term and banking committee chairmanship. Those words, along with the letter I received reminding me that he represents my interests literally made a little vomit come up.

Let me be explicit, 20 years in the Senate gave him ample opportunity to **** over every person and entity he worked with, for, or against. When connected people deal with him, they are 100% thinking, "How is this evil selfish man trying to **** me right now, and how is he ****ing his client right now?" Be certain that whatever happens to the PPA or poker, Al is setting things up so that HE comes out ahead somehow.

He is not the guy, and was and is perhaps the worst possible choice to represent poker players in the political arena. Unless you want everyone to think we're a collection of degenerate ****bags eager to **** ove anybody who'll give us the time of day. Well, I don't know maybe a pedophile or dog killer would be worse. Debateable--people would listen to Michael Vick, or at least show up to his press conference.

This post was spot on, imo:

ppa was a ****ing scam they did ****.
you need trustworthy people to run ppa not people like annie duke

I wonder if working for a business that only has 5 paid employees but a payroll of over a half million $ has anything to do with not leaving?

I was one of the people that said he was a respected senator but I was just assuming since he was in office so long that he must have been respected. I didn't pay much attention to politics when I was growing up in NY (while he was in office) but thats because I was a kid/teenager at the time. But through most of that time he was in office. If his record is one of a ****ty slime ball then he def should not be representing us as poker players. We don't need a slime ball representing an already tarnished hobby/profession.

Grunching.

PPA does indeed look weak in this whole mess, and the YouTube video very unprofessional. I wonder why FTP/PS don't ship a tiny fraction of their funds in their direction so that they can hire professionals at PR and media/etc.

With that said, PPA has probably done more than the rest of 2p2 combined.

As SmokeyJ noted, the comparison wasn't mine -- it was someone else's (SamuraiPlaya). My point was that no movement succeeds without the active (not passive) support of people. Thus far, we seem to be a fairly passive bunch of in-fighting keyboard warriors and mouse jockeys. That just ain't gonna get the job done. FWIW, I would never be so crass or simple as to compare the right to play poker with the fight for basic human rights.

Phew. I just saw it brought up a few times and it took me back a bit.

The problem is (like I've said before) poker players are lazy (me included) which is why a lot of them chose it as a profession it would be cool if people got out and rallied but I don't see that happening. it would be awesome if I was proven wrong though.

Totally agree w/ OP here.. Why havent they held a news conference??? I should see PPA memebers on the news STRESSING the fact that its a skill game. Comparing it to things like lotteries and horse racing. Not Greg Raymer missing key points. Ive recently been talking to alot of ignorant ppl on this subject, and when i compare our game of skill to those things ive mentioned, it really seems to resinate w/ them.

Agree, Nuisance --- we are a lazy lot. And that also rings true when you look at the actual number of PAID memberships to the PPA. Most have the free membership. The annual dues from paid memberships (referenced a few pages back) is just over 49K -- that's not enough to do bull-squat on the hill. Were it not for the IGC's contributions (which are now a subject of complaint by some) the PPA would simply be a mirror of poker player's apathy as realized by the lack of paid memberships. Yet we all want to skewer the PPA now that the crap has fallen in our laps? Pathetic.

Do the job properly or quit, no one cares how many hours you spent doing a job you volunteered for and could have left at any time. Stop pretending that doing the work you agreed to do when you took the position somehow entitles you to something.

If you don't like how you're treated, man up or get out of the way. That simple.

Last, you are not the PPA, yet you act as though any criticism of the PPA is a personal attack. It isn't, so knock that off, it's an organization you do work for, and you need to learn to separate yourself from it, you'll feel better and do a better job too.

However, to be frank, you're not the man for the job and you've proven that, IMO you should resign.

You sir are an idiot ..do you work for the DOJ?

Yeah, tell that crap to George Soros or Rupert Murdoch or any of the thousands of foreign individuals/companies that make contributions to U.S. politicians/parties every year, so easy to circumvent it's laughable.

To be fair, the PPA isn't the only 'weak sister' in this thing since last friday, High visibility U.S. Pro players have been just as MIA and they are definitely stupid for this because without online poker, their nice profitable sponsorships, advertising jobs and yes live poker profits are going to dry up and they'll be earning a tenth of what they have within a year. They were big 'sports' celebs, but what happens when that 'sport' dries up and we only have the WSOP coverage on ESPN (without PS and FT ad revenue btw)... lean times for them and they don't seem to realize it, now's the time to cash in on some of that celebrity and at least make a fight of it.

Actually, firetheppa, some of us do recognize and appreciate the hours that Skall and TE have put in as both PPA reps and individual poker players here on 2+2. They've chosen to stick their necks out and be the voice of the PPA, where appropriate. They've tried to communicate PPA's activities and actions to us and have helped rally us together towards a common purpose, as was seen by TE's efforts to manage the "call to action" thread, giving us a template to work from in contacting both our legislatures and the local media -- something the PPA cannot do on it's own.

They were constantly a part of discussion threads late last year when the Reid bill was circling around -- and they took all manner of crap for daring to suggest that the status quo was on its way out, that the payment processor seizures were just the beginning and that a black out was all but inevitable. Many skewered them at that time as well (both on a personal level and as reps of the PPA).

If you've never worked a job where you took crap on behalf of the company you worked for, be thankful. If you have and you can honestly say that you never got frustrated or lost your cool after taking such crap, then good for you -- you're a better person than most of us.

You might be more accurate to say that YOU don't care about the hours skall has put in or about his contributions... please don't pretend to speak for me by suggesting the 'no one cares'.

The WaPo op-ed was horrible. They need to be put under a microscope.