Most ridiculously idiotic statement to date!! FFS, who said anything about the PPA doing anything to the friggin DOJ. They have NOTHING to do with it, the PPA should be PUSHING publicly for legalization/regulation for the future, PS/FT/UB and the status quo are DONE, it's over, stick a friggin fork in them.

{youmad.gif}

yea. i def am

perhaps you missed this: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...2010-a-930754/

They were strongly in support, and in fact many in the poker player community still refused to support it, insisting that the status quo was better.

I'm not talking about saying 'We support the Reid Bill' to poker players, I'm talking about getting out front and into the mainstream media and pushing for Legalization/regulation in front of the general public where it might actually do some good.

#1 is absolutely not true. The vast, vast majority of the PPA's membership is the free membership.

#2 sounds about right without looking up the financial statement myself. As an organization that engages in lobbying, the PPA files a formal financial statement with the US government each year. You can find on google or a search of the 2+2 forums.

#3 is incorrect. The PPA is a registered non-profit organization. Because it engages in lobbying and other political activity it is not, however, a charity.

I know this because I am indeed a PPA Board Member. I'd like to start my post by telling you how I got to be a Board Member. I started as a simple recreational poker player. Well before Black Friday, it was after the UIGEA passed that I got mad. I began posting (on 2+2 and other places) concerns and ideas about ways to change our laws to protect my ability to play. As a lawyer, most of my ideas involved legal actions, an area the PPA was not involved in at that time. I kept up my advocacy and proposed actual plans. I presented them to the PPA. They agreed it was a good idea and the PPA's litigation support network was born. Provided I run it. So I did. In the 3 years this network has been up it has engaged and informed poker players in trouble in almost every state. It has actively litigated (meaning paid for the lawyers and the experts) the defense of poker players charged with illegal gambling in SC, PA, CO, and VA. It has participated in case in KY and WA. It is currently involved in paying for and assisting in the defense of 10 online poker players in Illinois (many of whom are well known on this forum) who were sued for 3x their online winnings. I might suggest you ask them if the PPA is worthless. As a result of my participation in these efforts, and in recognition that I have no ties to anyone but the players, I was elected to the Board last Fall.

There are two things that really sadden me about this thread and the OP.

The first is that it is shocking to me that while all this information is out there and easily accessible with a little effort, so many of you otherwise internet savvy folks seem to think that unless its brought directly to your attention, it must not have happened. I suspect few of you knew of the efforts of the litigation network before reading my post, yet all of that has been reported on in multiple places (though mostly the poker media) and is found easily with a search of the PPA site or 2+2.

The second thing that saddens me is just how many of you have a truly warped sense of the political reality out there. Do any of you really think that the vast majority of Americans even know much about online poker, much less care whether we can play it? If so you are wrong. And not only that, we have actual enemies out there, The social conservatives want to ban online poker only second to wanting to ban gay marriage. The Republican party has a plank in its official platform that specifically supports banning online poker.

Aside from that, many prominent Democrats oppose letting you play online poker. Ask (D from CA) Sen. Diane Feinstein's office her position if you do not believe me.

And aside from that an awful lot of US casino interests either continue to oppose us for fear of the competition or seek to establish their own monopoly over the online game.

Even the casino interests that support us in our goal for an open market often have some interests that are not in line with what would be best for the player.

Any of you who even remotely think this is going to be an easy fight are deluded.

Finally, many ask why the PPA hasn't done more. The simple answer is that the PPA is doing as much as it can given the support it is getting. Ultimately, the PPA is what you, the players, make of it. It is not something that exists independent of the players. Nor can the PPA make players do things. The PPA is an organization for players to use to influence politics.

I could go on and on about things like how CNN doesn't exactly drop everything else and roll cameras just because D'Amato asks them to, but this post is already long.

Complaining about the one organization that is out there trying to fight for your right to play is OK when it recognizes the difficulty of our (us poker players) situation and tries to suggest ways in which the PPA can better improve that situation.

Complaining about the one organization that is out there trying to fight for your right to play simply to complain and moan about how bad the situation and the organization are, that accomplishes nothing and assures your future will be worse than it otherwise has to be.

The fight to get back anything similar to what we lost on 4/15 is going to be a very difficult and lengthy fight. Sorry to have to tell you that, but its true. Miracles are very rare in real life, and even rarer in politics. It took our opponents over 10 years to get the UIGEA passed (by a 3 to 1) margin in the House of Representative, and even then they ultimately had to find a Senator so desperate for their votes that he was willing to make their bill a last minute attachment to a "must pass" security bill so it could become law.

I only wish the people who supported FocusonFamily and similar groups for all those years had had the same perspective, determination and patience that the majority of posters in this thread have shown. Had that been the case, the UIGEA would never have become law.

Skallagrim

Just lobbying 'behind the scenes' does very little good, you've got to get public support to put these idiot politicians in an armbar (even the ones you've "bought" through lobbying) and force them to take action.

You think the public who doesn't play online poker gives a ****? They had trouble convincing people on here it was worth supporting for christ sake.

The general public (non poker playing) laughs at online poker/gambling in general. Not to mention all the religious people in this country who's pull is way to strong imo.

I think the general public CAN'T give a **** about online poker if they don't even know anything about it or the fact that yet another right has been stripped from U.S. citizens (which they definitely DO care about). PPA has done almost nothing to put this in front of the public when they have HUNDREDS of big-name celebrities like Matt Damon, Jennifer Tilly (ok, some d-listers too) Gabe Kaplan and too many others to name that I'm sure would just jump at the chance to stand up for poker rights, probably for free and on their own dime but definitely if they were asked and provided some organized support. How many votes would Matt's dreamy face or Jennifer's giant (ahem) assets get the PPA for legalization? I'd bet quite a few.

PPA is rigged?

How many employees does the PPA have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpf7f...eature=related

I am actually surprised that the PPA didn't/doesn't try to get poker playing celebrities to back them. Even if it's something as mundane as wearing patches that say something like legalize online poker (I know it's legal but thats not important). Like SpaceGhost said it couldn't hurt they will either say yes or no. Americans are ******ly in love with celebrities it doesn't matter if they are A,B,C or D list.

Unfortunately I think it's going to end up like the fight to get Marijuana legal.

hotcats,

I didn't see anything there or in the swampland.time link that said anything about collecting $22,000,000 in dues. I realize it wasn't you who made that claim. If it is there, could you please show us how to find it?

Everybody,

I think that the $22M figure is made up. Probably by somebody taking a previously claimed membership of 1.1M members and multiplying that by the $20.00 premium membership fee, and then assuming it is paid annually. The problem with that approach is that of the 1.1 or 1.2 million members the PPA claims to have, the vast majority never gave them a cent. You can get a basic membership for free. It's worth at least what you pay for it.

Frankly, I think the PPA have done quite a lot given their small size and limited budget. They've lobbied. They've gotten a lot of press coverage for an organization their size. (Since Black Friday I have seen 3 PPA Board Members quoted in the press.) And they have been involved in pro-poker litigation in several states.

The legislative outlook for online poker in the US is changing, slowly, for the better. The PPA deserves a portion of the credit.

If you don't think the PPA is effective enough, what are you going to do to help it become more effective? Donating money and writing letters is fine, but what the PPA really needs to become more effective is to increase its organizational capacity. That is where you can help the most.

From what I can tell reading about the PPA on the web, right now the PPA has no constitution, no formal governance structure, no accounability except the public reporting required of lobbyists and contributors. It doesn't have anybody with the time available to look after these things. It has no personnel or strategy devoted to growing the organization, beyond getting people to sign up and (maybe) pay dues.

A lot of what the PPA does gets done through the efforts of John Pappas, the (paid?) Executive Director, and TheEngineer and Skallagrim, two regular guys on 2+2 who stepped up as committed volunteers. The other Board members step in from time to time to help, mostly with public appearances and lobbying. (Actually, it could be a whole lot more, but there is no public reporting of what they do.) The PPA probably doesn't have a dedicated full-time communications & media relations person (let alone a department). Whatever little is happening at the local level is also being accomplished through the efforts of a few volunteers.

If you don't think that enough is being done, that's because there aren't enough people to do it. What are you going to do about that? You have to do the organizing. You have to build local chapters. You have to identify volunteer talent. And you have to research how to organize and govern a grassroots organization.

Why you? Because the current PPA core is too small to be doing these things itself while also doing the things it does do. The formal organization's effort is going into the lobbying, media appearance, and legal fights. They have to do those things. If you want the PPA to grow, so it is big enough to become much more effective, you are going to have to do the work of making it grow.

I don't understand why people are going at the OP, what did he say that was sooo wrong?

So a multi-million dollar organization that has been around for 5 years is a 3 man show? Right....

The parts I bolded/underlined really challenge my intelligence. Their SOLE purpose is to do what you said they aren't capable of doing.

1) Why do these celebrities need the PPA to ask them to speak up for poker? Are they incapable of doing it themselves?

2) I would like to answer your question with more detail about specific efforts. But we at the PPA continue to hope that some of those celebrities who have not returned calls, or been too busy, or just don't think they are the right person to speak up, may actually help next time they are called.

As to your comparison regarding the fight to get marijuana legal, you are absolutely correct. If the poker playing community responds to the situation with the same level of effort as most marijuana smokers, we will suffer the same result. If, on the other hand, the poker playing community responds with the kind of effort made by gays and lesbians, we will also progress and achieve things over time.

Skallagrim

The vast majority of the PPA's funds pay for the PPA's lobbying efforts in D.C. and some state capitols. Lobbying is not cheap. And before anyone says it is a waste perhaps you would take a closer look. No one gets anything in DC without a lobbyist.

Also, the PPA hires a well respected DC firm to facilitate interaction with the media. The firm specializes in doing that for its clients.

But I am beginning to think that facts are not particularly important here.

Skallagrim

Pwnd.

PPA > OP IMO

Again I ask how many paid employees?

+1,000,000

I am not the one who made the claim that the PPA is basically a 3 man show. Obviously, it isn't. The only claim I made is that you guys have aligned yourselves with Stars/FT and they are a sinking ship. If you don't align yourself with an organization who has more political power (money) than you were receiving from Stars/FT, online poker will never come back.

I never said money was wasted lobbying. I don't really like being rainmade, either.

I don't like being rainmade either. I also don't like being accused of things that there is no proof of.

No one ever said that the PPA made the DOJ give players their money back. By the same token it is just plain stupid think that the DOJ made that deal out of the goodness of their hearts and their concern for poker players. IF THEY CARED ABOUT POKER PLAYERS THEY WOULD LET YOU PLAY.

The DOJ made the deal with the sites because they felt political pressure to do so. That is the only reason the DOJ ever gives away anything.

You may want to conclude that the emails and phone calls sent to the DOJ and to Congress through PPA efforts had nothing to do with the DOJ feeling political pressure, but that makes no sense to me.

Someone leaned on the prosecutors to cut that deal (and cut it soon). Was it Harrahs? The social conservatives? Obama? If not the PPA, who?

Skallagrim

IT WAS THE 2+2ers that were blowing up the DOJS page and OBAMAs page. As effective as ever PPA announced almost 24hrs later where we should go to state our feelings....Im sure its hard to see being a recreational player and seeing the forest for the trees but when your livelyhood is on the line and "our orginization" has only had 8minutes total of news coverage we start to speculate as to your resorcefullness. As far as I see it 2+2 is where we mount up and get news out......AND ITS FREE!!!!!!!! No results no more donations from me anyway!!!