I like to see some of the organization attempts from some of the big critics here. If you've got something good in the works, I may join up with you. Anything?

I am giving up answering questions in this thread. I am giving it up because it simply does no good. If I fight with posters I am unprofessional, if I don't fight with posters and try and generate unity, I am a wimp. I answer questions and get asked the same questions again. I post facts and the facts are ignored. One anonymous lawyer who has never tried to help the legal situation himself posts a critique and it is accepted as the be all and end all of legal analysis simply because it makes the PPA look bad. So be it. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn what any one thinks of me personally. I am just a simple player who has tried to do what he could to better the legal situation of poker players - I have no personal stake in this fight beyond that.

I intend to continue to my efforts, but it is clear to me that this is not the place to devote any more time. Minds are already made up and what effort I as one person can provide is clearly better used elsewhere.

So, say what you want, think what you want. Despite this thread there are still hundreds of thousands of poker players who want to work with the PPA and try and improve both the PPA and our effort to change the law. So that is who I will work with.

The rest of you can just continue to bitch and moan in this thread, essentially making yourself (thankfully) irrelevant to poker's future, or you can go and do something without the PPA.

To those who want to work with me, you know where to find me.

Good luck to all.

Skallagrim

not sure what some of the posters here want, the PPA is obviously on our side. some seem to think they can single handedly change what the DOJ has done. what does OP want, the PPA to make the DOJ an offer they can't refuse ala vito corleone. posts like this are doing more harm then good imo.

Oh no, it's very easy to write that when one has your organization for inspiration.

simply stated, your organization's results FOR THE PLAYERS have not met the promises TO THE PLAYERS

which is why your tactics were dumb and naive from the start

should have been trying to win in the courts rather than waste time lobbying

idk, perhaps you could have had players in states with friendly laws just play online poker in front of the state legislature building (or at the Starbucks across the street) and dared someone to arrest the player. Then, pursue the legal battle that would ensue.

Not as much money in the trough for that sort of tactic. That tactic requires results as well rather than pissing in the wind forever.

These are the inevitable consequences of defending the indefensible.

$380,000 in 2009 not salary but paid as a lobbyist. Last years records not available , 5 paid employees made $518,000 and board member fees $250,000

Lobbying Ideas Thread

Anything that the self serving Wendeen Eolis in involved with has to be crap.

I have the will, desire, and some plans... I think if 50 critics can band together with me, I'd love to try and start an alternative to the PPA. It could complement the PPA and be more organic, focusing on Machiavellian intelligence & creative solutions. Of course, Grange95 must be willing to do this with me along with several other sensible critics who can intelligently understand why the PPA failed. Black Friday may spur a better movement than the PPA, and maybe this might be the one? I still believe anything's possible...

what are all the haters of the ppa doing for poker?

Instead of reaming people who are trying to help....go out and do something yourself.

voicing criticism of an organization that one may feel hasn't lived up to its potential is actually beneficial. DUCY?

I dont get why people are beating the **** of Skall so much on a personal level. Im frustrated with some of the PPA's strategic choices, search my post history, you'll find plenty of criticism.

Not sure why Skall is getting so much of the heat though. He joined the board recently, so he's not responsible for most of the strategic direction of the organization. He put together the litigation network himself and brought it to the PPA. That's been arguably the most successful part of the entire PPA organization. Yeah, its not a perfect track record, but he hasn't been running around trying to manufacture cases to take poker to court, he's fought fights when they need fighting.

The worst case we've brought strategically, IMHO, was Rousso vs Washington. Skall didnt initiate that case and didnt drive PPA's overall WA strategy (which, again IMHO, is where the PPA has made its biggest mistakes with hindsight).

For all the crap he's taken about his optimistic views on winning in the courts, he's never claimed litigation was more than a stop gap strategy at best.

Beat the **** out of PPA strategy or disagree with Skall's opinion all you want, lord knows the organization needs to make some changes, but beating on Skall personally like this is complete bull****. He's not getting rich off of this, he doesn't have some ulterior motive, and he doesnt deserve to be pissed all over for what has happened or even for mistakes the PPA as a whole has made.

What satisfaction are you getting from pissing all over someone who has given a ton of time and effort to helping poker players legally?

They do nothing but troll the internet, wasting their time.

I think people are pissed about not being to play Internet poker and blaming an organization that most did not donate to or volunteer time to. As long as they could play they were happy and now they are not.

DOJ played the PPA hu for rollz, and guess who won,.......

Skall,

The PPA is not perfect. I don't expect it to be, but you guys do not deserve the level of **** that you catch on these forums. I could criticize some things but I am supportive of you. Thanks for volunteering.

On the celebrity front, has anyone reached out to Joe Rogan? He was posting some seriously-annoyed tweets about the poker bust. I messaged him a couple of times on Twitter and told him he should join the quadjacks podcast, but he didn't respond.

The nanny state incompetards part was my favorite!

I agree with earlier poster.

I have had my problems with the PPA, they have poor leadership, seem to be invisable at the most crucial time, and in general have a very poor internet presence.

But theengineer imo is a bright spot for the PPA. I feel if more members, or at least those in charge were more like the engineer, the PPA would be much better off. As well as more productive.

Also Skall may get defensive, but he is trying to do more than about 80% of the current poker comunity. So he deserves some respect.

Indeed - there is no need for personal attacks. Skall has worked hard, as have other PPA members. I'd rather people focus their energy going forward than complaining.

In moving forward, how can the PPA have a greater presence? Who can join/support so that the PPA is more recognized in D.C.? Any other celebrities to try? What about corporations, such as ESPN, who benefit from poker?

ESPN had seriously distanced itself from poker.

I don't think ESPN is dropping all poker they are just distancing themselves from the indicted sites. This is something players and the PPA should do as well,IMO Its hard to go to DC and argue for legal regulated poker while still having ties to these indicted sites.

I'm not against the PPA or the hard working people in the PPA but I think our message/tactics may need to change.

^True, my post about ESPN wasn't entirely accurate.

reading this post tilted me horribly and i guess a mod deleted my reply so i'll start over having taken a couple deep breaths and try to post something more constructive

skall: i don't doubt for a second you have worked hard since taking up your position with the PPA. where i take issue, as i stated my in my initial post in this thread, is that with every passing PPA thread the organization looks more and more amateurish and it's more and more disillusioning because the fact of the matter is this is the only organization poker players have and look at where we are now.

you yourself even basically admitted that the PPA is filled with amateurs.

apparently this is enough to make you a board member. suhweeeeeeeeeet

you seem to want people to acknowledge that you have all worked very hard and it was an uphill battle and yadda yadda yadda. yea ok, you probably worked hard. so what? where did that get us? we are currently sitting in what from day 1 was the worst case scenario with a lot of money currently frozen. i have donated to the PPA, i have followed all the form letters to legislation the PPA wanted players to send. i have done pretty much everything in every sticky ever posted in PPA or legistlation. i do not thank you for your efforts and will not ever thank you for your efforts. why? because while you may point to these things that the PPA has done the fact of the matter is that online poker is for all intents and purposes gone from the country save for rouge sites i wouldn't trust with a wooden nickel, and it's now entirely in the hands of the courts and congress whether or not it'll ever come back.

a common sentiment ITT has been "well if you don't like it why don't you do something?" it is WAY too late to start from the ground floor. the PPA began 6 years ago and i doubt very much it would be possible to start another organization from the ground up and hope for any reasonable success in the near future. all we can really do is voice our displeasure with how things have been run in the hopes that the organization will change direction going forward.

my biggest frustration is the fact that it seems like unless you are a charter board member in the PPA fighting on the front lines, your critiques are seen as invalid or trolling or you're irrelevant in the eyes of that organization. yea ok dude. whatever you say.

i said the PPA reminds me of clay davis. i stand by that.

you behave like a petulant child and this is exactly the reason the PPA fails. the opposition to poker is clear and yet you still decide this should instead be a civil war amongst players, alienating yourself from a large player base because you only want to work with people are nice to you. you dismiss critiques as trolling because they're being mean to you yet in the same breath you validate them. it is 100% clear that EVERYONE needs to be on a unified front if anything is to ever be achieved yet you basically tell people who don't like your ideas "**** off, we don't need you."

the NRA has a member base of 4 million. congress does not take a **** unless the NRA says they can go to the bathroom. unfortunately your "hundreds of thousands" won't cause anyone to take notice. your delusion and your hyper-sensitivity is very upsetting

I guess I didn't word my first post very well.

I think the PPA could have more of a presence if it had the sponsorship/partnership/support from a few companies (this support doesn't even have to be financial). I mentioned ESPN simply because it was the first company that popped into my head that profited from the game (ad revenue). I am not saying a company that aligned itself with the PPA would align itself with FTP/PS/AB/UB.

Partnerships could bring far more awareness to the efforts of regulation with taxation.

Excellent post here.

I would have liked to see this as well...but I have no idea what PPA's financials look like. I do know a bit about how (state) legislatures and the courts work, though. Such an undertaking will/would be massively expensive in terms of legal fees. This would be something that may likely have to ultimately be settled by the Supreme Court if Congress continues to ignore it. Appellate attorneys (good ones, anyway) aren't cheap..