What's your point? PPA is not pushing legislation designed to allow FTP or PS into the market. Rather, the bill out there, and all the bills before, make it pretty tricky for these sites to get in. If anything, they've all heavily favored U.S. interests.

Skall,

Thanks for your reply, that's really interesting.

I know that a ton of what happens at the highest levels of government is completely beyond me, but is it fair to say that if the federal government goes through the trouble of passing a law at the federal level, it wouldn't make sense for them to then allow every single state to not only opt-out but also write their own laws?
The assumption being that every state would likely have it in its interest to write a personalized bill that advantages it more than the federal law does.

Good to know that our letters do have some kind of impact, even though I really wonder what kind of leverage they really give us practically speaking in terms of the incentive it gives congress people to act according to some of our interests.

TE, it really pains me to see you waste your energies by replying to this imbecile, please stop!!!!!!!

Actually I'd argue that 99% of the people truly concerned with the current situation are on 2+2.

What you're failing to consider is that poker players, especially those of the younger generations, are some of the most apathetic people on the planet.

The reason there were only 70 people at this rally is not that it was horrendously organized, it's that NO ONE GIVES A ****!!!!

Get it? People care, as long as they don't actually have to do anything.

It's generational imo. People are too comfortable nowadays to really feel the despair needed to make changes happen.
That's where the problem is, mostly.

You can be the best internet marketer the world has ever seen.
I guarantee that unless you offered free Jessica Alba blowjobs at that rally, you could not have gotten one more person there.

After All I've written here Mr Muny can only say "whats your point"

Like Ive said its all about leadership....

If poker players were that active with in-person activism, our cause would own the Hill.

PPA emailed invitations to the membership, discussed it on several forums and talked it up extensively. I hope the next rally will catch fire, but this is consistent with the history of these events.

+1.

The ppa are doing there part, its up to the players to contribute.

Sir, Apathey is a big issue but Leadership is supposed to combat apathy.

For example I got an email maybe the day off the rally with words to the effect

"if you happen to be in the dc area on this date please come to our rally"

Apathy cannot be combated by APATHETIC LEADERSHIP.

Should they not know who is in the DC area if they have names addresses and phone numbers of 1 million members?

Should they not then geo target all members within a 200 mile driving distance of the "rally" DAYS IN ADVANCE?

Should they not be calling said geo targeted members on a weekly basis reminding them of said rally?

How many times have Mr Muny or Mr Fleming retorted to criticism, legitimate or not, with the flippant response...

"Well I know you've done nothing for the cause while I'VE DONE X Y an Z..."


Really isn't than basically saying

"I know you are but what am I?"

The PPA has a membership list of over 1.2 million. This does give a solid voice on the Hill. To claim that this figure is sufficient to be "be unleashing holy hell on the Hill" kind of depends on what you mean by "holy hell" - as I mentioned above, our presence is counted on the Hill. But poker players also face lots of opposition on the Hill. Focus on the Family has how many members on its list?

The Rally on the Hill was never meant to be a "mass rally" - as I posted and the PPA announced, before the event. On short notice on a workday 70 additional folks was not bad for the poker community. The PPA actually had just as many, in many cases more, folks in attendance than the various groups who were there to either support or protest Netanyahu who was giving a speech before Congress the same day (which he scheduled after the PPA event was announced).

There are an estimated 10 million online poker players in the US. The PPA has a membership (mostly by far free memberships) of about 10% of the total. And about 10% of PPA members can be counted on to respond to calls for action. From what I have read this is a common pattern with advocacy groups.

I will agree, however, that the ability of the PPA to get supporters to turn out in person has been poor. If you have some suggestions on methods to improve that, I would love to hear them. The one method you prescribed, making phone calls, is problematic because it is labor intensive - hence highly costly or dependent on significant volunteers. You also have to have phone numbers, not just email addresses, facebook page links, and twitter followers ....

Skallagrim

Mr Flemming I could go to the place where migrant workers are located right now and out of my pocket get 200 guys to show up at a place of my choosing by offering them a Big Mac Coke and Fries.....

Then explain why this didn't go viral just from it being mentioned here. Seriously...PPA isn't a "they", it's a "we". Surely we can all pitch in and stand up for the game.

Also, Patrick spells his last name with one "m". He's Patrick Fleming.

Ok fair enough; so here's a suggestion, and a serious one.

Instead of bashing the PPA all day long, why don't you work with them?
Why don't you offer your expertise in a constructive way?
You don't have to do volunteer work 20 hours a week.

You could contact them and say "Listen, I can see that you guys are not exactly marketing experts. It's an art in itself and something I work and specialize in, so here are some suggestions regarding what you could do to become more efficient in terms of getting people to act, etc..."


For ex: I was a musician for 20 years. If an organization whose goals I cared about tried to put together a concert or musical spectacle of some sort, I could offer non-negligeable advice about accoustics, sounds engineering, etc...put them in contact with some of my connections, whatever it is; all of that in a few emails and certainly fewer lines of text than you've written so far to add nothing of value to your constant criticism.

And this place exists in Washington, DC?

And even if it does, you who think we have all been living an evil lie thanks to knowing Howard Lederer now suggest we bribe migrant workers or other people to show up for rallies? LOL

I know you enjoy this stuff Roddney, but you have so far failed to suggest anything practical despite your scathing attacks (oh I am hurt ). So in the future, just spell my name right, OK?

Skallagrim

Careful ... you might get banned if Mason hears this...

Sir how difficult is it for an organization with 1 million members to get and average of 1 dollar from those members to HIRE a small staff so they can then further mobilize the membership with raising of funds and showing up at organized rally's and meetings?

Also my initial dealing with Mr Flemming were quite negative as are most people who post something he doesn't like and he is a BOARD MEMBER.



THIS!!!!

The guy has no clue how shameful this is. HE IS ON THE BOARD! He is on the BOARD!!!! of this organization.

That is a great idea with The Hill and USA Today interviewing attendees for stories in their papers and websites.

You're only sinking your case further.... If your not helping and getting involved, then stfu.

so the idea that I'm saying that thumping your chest at what a success getting 75 people(less than the amount of congressmen in attendance) to show up to a rally is, at the very least, one dimensional thinking?

Even after illustrating they failed to Geo target possible Local Members, or to mobilize local members that they posses address and phone number for...

Amazing the level of maturity you all display....

Need to get some creative fun organizers out there. Why not flip the script on the whole teaparty thing with the moneybags.

In terms of getting the word out, I signed up for some PPA thing. I didn't know rally was happening. The Charles Town 2+2 forum wasn't recruited, etc. etc.

Seems like you need to engage some leaders who can mobilize their people.

In this budget climate it's shocking that it's so hard to move something that would generate money.

Is there a list somewhere of who the yes's, no's and swing targets are? (esp key committee/subcommittee)

Thx

Hire some unemployed grinders to do it!!!

BTW where are the hilarious pro-poker youtube videos.

SO much rich material here....

It has proven to be quite difficult, unfortunately.

FYP

Patrick and I posted here for years before joining the PPA Board. We joined the board to represent the player base within PPA -- not necessarily the reverse.

I do recognize that we represent the PPA somewhat in our postings here so I try to maintain an appropriate level of professionalism. That being said, the reality is that we do speak as independent voices.

As you like to attack people personally, Skall's response ought not surprise you. It did not surprise me. I know I've treated you with respect and courtesy. I also know that treatment has not been reciprocated by you at all.

Can even do incentives. Everyone who goes to congressional office visit gets a chance to meet (celebrity poker player X) or w/e.

I know the more I think of how miss manged this organization is the more depressed I get...

time to log off for today...

If you want some strategy advice and create a forum for creative brainstorming PM me.

I don't have a lot of time to put in but a focused forum on ideas (heavily moderated so no flaming?) could be fun.

Really I'd need to understand the underlying strategy, the key swing folks, and the type of reaction messaging is getting before being on point, but some random ideas could be fun.

Apparently quite difficult. I think that from the sheer number of hours these people spend responding to allegations of all kinds on this forum, it is fair to infer that they do care about that cause.
We're also talking about people who are significantly smarter than average.

So there are two things here:

First of all, I think that you severely underestimate the apathy phenomenon I was talking about.

Second of all; yes, it's pretty clear they aren't marketing specialist or perhaps even aware enough of its value to spend money hiring a team of such experts. (or maybe you're just overestimating and overstating its value in the present circumstances, again going back to the apathy factor)

I haven't followed your exchanges with Skall, but it's pretty clear to me that you likely didn't come off as simply wanting to help in the most constructive way possible from the beginning (if that's not the case, all my apologies but I simply highly doubt it), so again, now it just comes down to your trying to make a case for the EV that you see in their potentially spending money on a marketing team, or your offering your help/advice, or your showing up with 200 immigrants at the next rally, etc...

Anything else is a waste of energy and purely destructive.

I don't know, people without humor worry me a lot more than the alternative (I'm looking at you, Mason) and honestly, if I were constantly attacked for what I'm doing, 95% of the time baselessly, I would personally be taking it far worse than this.