Somebody should just write on the DOJ's Facebook wall page once a day about how they are screwing us. That will get some non-poker player's exposure. Not sure if it will help but anything is better than nothing at this point

So, you seem to be implying that you don't have a facebook account, since you could have easily done what you suggested already instead of suggesting someone else do it.

When Black Friday happened the DoJ's facebook wall was covered (literally nearly every post) with comments slamming them and what they had done, and those continued for weeks (I stopped paying attention at some point). No one from the DoJ responded and at some point I believe they began removing some of the poker related comments. Part of the PPA daily action plan usually involves targeting certain congressmen's walls and twitter feeds in the same way - some of which are also immediately censored and generally receive no response.

Does anyone know of any US FTP player that got his money back? I work with a guy that says he got all of his money in about 2 months after BF. ~$4000. He says he has a friend that got his money back as well.

3 reasons that are stopping me, King of Assumptions:

1. I have no idea how to do it (but I would donate to it). I'm guessing a group of guys, one with legal experience, might be needed to do it right.

2. I am on file with, in surveillance photos and wiretaps of, and been raided by (although never arrested, convicted, or imprisoned by) such agencies as the BATF, DEA, and FBI (let alone local police). Let's just say I grew up with some people most of you wouldn't associate with, and I have never stopped calling them my friends just because they've commited a laundry list of crimes in their lives. Point is: It would be a scandal if I had anything to do with such an organization, other than donating to it like any one of you would/could. I'm not exactly a prime candidate for this task.

3. As I've written about on these forums, I have had medical issues with my lungs that have partially incapacitated me and led to two surgeries. I have never fully recovered, and likely won't. I have time to get on these forums sometimes, play poker at a few casinos in my general vicinity so I can pay some bills and replenish my depleted personal savings (from medical bills), and sleep. Unless I was being paid well enough, I couldn't run such an organization even if I was a good enough citizen to want my name attached to it. As I'd prefer NOT to take a large salary (and therefore funds away from the cause) EVEN IF I was a person who should run such an organization, I couldn't financially (or in good conscience) do the job.

Anymore questions? Oh, you meant it as a condescending rhetorical question...didn't you? Sorry to spoil that. /sarcasm

I find it silly you asked such a question (in the manner, and with the intent, you asked it) to begin with since the PPA (GOPLA) themselves are suggesting we start just such an organization. They are not comfortable advocating for players specifically (despite their Orwellian name) since their corporate donors have no interest in doing so. They only advocate for us REALLY when it coincides with their large business donors' interests. This is painfully obvious (and frankly understandable). They are about legalizing poker, not getting us our money back. Our money is only a priority insofar as it is good public/player relations to make any effort at all. This is understandable and economical (for their actual motives), but clearly not living up to their name (Poker PLAYERS Alliance).

PS. Don't use any of this as an ad hominem attack, now or in the furure, or you'll look like an illogical ass. And save the stupid jokes too...no one cares, and our money being returned quickly isn't a laughing matter. Carry on bashing anyone who wishes to do exactly what your beloved PPA (GOPLA) are suggesting we do (start an ACTUAL player advocacy group), and assuming folks like me have no reason they might be unable to do so ourselves. By your logic, you should have started the PPA and work for it, right? What stopped you? Don't answer...it's a dumb, condescending rhetorical question...just like yours was.

There is no secret. Poker sites started them (including FTP board members who ripped us off, BTW), sat on their board at the PPA (the FTP guys are gone now - but not soon enough), and I'm sure current sites or those who want to open poker sites if legislation passes (maybe among others) still fund them. You haven't seen them deny it, have you? Ask for a full list of their donors, and a list of how much each group donated. Individuals and groups associated with the gaming industry (as opposed to players) will make up a large chunk of funds.

Are you so naive to believe lobbying groups like this represent individual players FIRST and FOREMOST? Lobbyists almost always represent some business interests...and that is the case here, clearly. And they always use misleading names, like the PPA does. They should be called the GOPLA (Get Online Poker Legalized (for big business interests) Alliance). You really think they pay themselves salaries out of the little donations we give as poker players? Think about it.

Again, their name being "Poker Players Alliance" doesn't mean they are actually a player advocacy group. Think for yourself please, stop relying on marketing ploys to understand the nature of reality.

USAO SDNY called me back. They made the update on their site (http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/vw_c...okerstars.html). The info is confirmed and on a separate call, even WENDY olsen, not Linda Olsen, called me as well. Here's the info:

November 20, 2012—Victim Update. The United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York is evaluating applicants for the position of Claims Administrator to handle petitions for remission for U.S. victims of the alleged fraud that Full Tilt Poker committed relating to player funds. The United States Attorney’s Office expects that the Claims Administrator will be selected and begin work in January 2013.

Calling these right now, will update if anything happens obv.

Edit: Well, not calling after the update above. Good news at least imo. And given that result, is this in timeline with other cases, and can anyone guess as to the next step now?

Also this clearly had nothing to do with the PPA.

great 6 months wasted due to paperwork

Haven't read any of thread, but just saw full tilt ads on here in the UK. Did people get paid? Short summary of what's happened?

When the US attorney's office says 'weeks' it means at least 5 months apparently.

It was a genuine question.

Lots of people in this thread are bashing the PPA and saying they should be doing this and doing that while doing nothing themselves.

Would be excited about this but it appears that even after they get the administrator is hired it'll still be months before we see our $$$

Tx for the update, much appreciated.

Do donations to the PPA count as "doing nothing"?

Doing nothing is better than meeting with the WRONG ****ING PEOPLE (the AFMLS instead of the SDNY) when those of us who had been paying attention knew the SDNY was hiring the claims administrator, putting out a PRESS RELEASE with erroneous information that virtually no progress had been made, spending all your time afterwards defending yourself (poorly, at that) in an internet forum rather than making a simple phone call to the RIGHT people, then trying to claim credit afterwards for the progress that had been made in your absence.

FU, PPA, until you admit you screwed up, and apologize to this forum.

Hey Gankster, while I doubt you want my help (me being a corporate stooge and all), I have helped folks try and start organizations in the past. Feel free to ask.

And while we are thinking about it, perhaps we should consider what such an organization should do with respect to the whole BF/FTP situation. I came up with a list:

1) Right after BF the group should have demanded that praying players be a top priority and that the government make provisions with the sites for that to occur.

2) Following up on that the group should have its members contact both the DOJ and Congress to urge a method for quick repayment. Group lobbyists should contact Congressional representatives and urge them to contact the DOJ and express concern over player funds.

3) Once the sites and the DOJ agree to a method of returning player funds, the group should demand the sites comply as quickly as possible.

4) When two sites do not comply with returning player funds even after PokerStars does, the group should demand an explanation and quick resolution.

5) When neither an explanation or money is given, the group should inform players of what is happening and provide them with the legal information they need to exercise their rights.

6) Upon realizing that that reason there is no explanation or money is that the two sites do not have the money, the group should declare players the "victims" of the whole mess and demand they be treated by the government as victims should. The group might even publish a formal legal guide describing a method of compensating victims that could be used to help players.

7) Throughout the whole ordeal of "deal no deal" the group should keep advocating fro player interests to be foremost in any settlement.

8). Once a deal is struck, the organization should analyze the deal and prepare players to participate.

9) Once the repayment process is decided upon, the group should seek to do what it can to expedite the process and make sure the process is fair to players. This should probably include more legal work and direct contact with DOJ lawyers so as to be certain that the DOJ understands what player/victims consider fair and just.

10) If the process seems bogged down the group should analyze the situation and provide the DOJ with specific information to expedite things. The group can also call upon its (limited but not insignificant) political allies to urge the DOJ to expedite the process. It should also consider whether public pressure can be applied or whether that may backfire.

Did I miss anything?



Skallagrim

Thank you for your kind words.

Hiring the administrator was a task given to the SDNY by the AFMLS office.

All policy decisions regarding remission will be made by AFMLS and AFMLS will monitor the work of the claims administrator.

The major purpose of the meeting was to try and influence these policy decisions, not discover a timetable for the hiring of an administrator. In fact, most of us were shocked to find that an administrator had not already been chosen.

It is interesting that in order to be able to post "FU PPA" you also have to believe that all four of those career lawyers at the AFMLS who spent over 2 hours talking remissions policy with the PPA were really just playing a practical joke on the PPA.

It is also interesting that you would consider a press release saying no progress has been made to be "erroneous." What "progress" is shown by a DOJ announcement a week later that the DOJ "expects" to have a claims administrator hired around the first of the year (4 months after the deadline for applications and 6 weeks away from the announcement)?

Skallagrim

hmmm, looks like my link doesn't work but here's a pic with updated information and URL in the address bar:

Is this behind or ahead of the schedule that the PPA believed would be the estimated timeline for repayment?

Excuse me? Screwed up? Sorry, I didn't realize that the hiring of a claims administrator was the #1 concern/priority of the poker community. Silly us, we met with the people who will actually make decisions on how much money is returned to players and how that is done.

And please let me know what part of my statement was erroneous. I stated that a claims adminstrator had not yet been hired and a date was not provided for that hiring a fact that has been confirmed by today's DoJ statement.

We should all be pleased that they seem to be narrowing it down and I am hopeful that by 2013 they will be able to begin the process in earnest.

John A. Pappas
ED, PPA

Returning Forfeited Assets to Crime Victims: An Overview of Remission and Restoration [justice.gov]

How are potential victims notified of the remission process?

Following the seizure of the property, the U.S. Attorney’s Office, in cooperation with the investigating agency, identifies all potential victims and notifies them of the opportunity to file a petition for remission. Known victims should be notified by mail. If there are unknown victims, notification may be made by publication. The U.S. Attorney’s Office may also use the Victim Notification System and modify the standard victim notice to include notice of forfeiture and a model petition for remission.

Can a trustee be used?

With the approval of the AFMLS, a trustee may be employed in large multiple-victim cases to support the U.S. Attorney in notifying potential victims of the opportunity to seek remission, in processing the petitions, and in making recommendations to the United States Attorney.

Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section [justice.gov]

The Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section (AFMLS) leads the Department's asset forfeiture and anti-money laundering enforcement efforts. AFMLS provides leadership by: (1) prosecuting and coordinating complex, sensitive, multi-district, and international money laundering and asset forfeiture investigations and cases; (2) providing legal and policy assistance and training to federal, state, and local prosecutors and law enforcement personnel, as well as to foreign governments; (3) assisting Departmental and interagency policymakers by developing and reviewing legislative, regulatory, and policy initiatives; and (4) managing the Department's Asset Forfeiture Program, including distributing forfeited funds and properties to appropriate domestic and foreign law enforcement agencies and to community groups within the United States, as well as adjudicating petitions for remission or mitigation of forfeited assets.

The Department of Justice just released the following statement on FTP player repayment (http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/vw_c...okerstars.html):

This sounds positive

I doubt you can seriously believe or even make a case that the PPA met with the "wrong people". The "wrong people" at the DOJ don't take meetings with other wrong people. The AFMLS is clearly a part of this remissions process as was indicated in the "help wanted ad" In consultation with the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York and the Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section of the United States Department of Justice

I am also not a big believer in coincidence so, I have trouble imagining the "new information" is not a direct result of two things. One, the PPA meeting with the DOJ and two, the backlash from that meeting resulting in many phone calls from angry FTP victims. This brief, but I am sure, purposely non-specific update, seems but a peace offering to calm the angry beasts! It should work, as we are so starved for any real news even a report of something that has not happened yet but, is promised to happen at sometime in the future is more than welcome by the community as a real update. Which it is not!

I think most people who looked at the data regarding remissions would have optimistically guessed we might see an appointment in the January to March time frame, so with that in mind January is encouraging. But, it is only the first step. Our next milestone will be the victim notification letters and, hopefully, pre-filled out petitions for remission. If we can get to those in the first quarter of 2013 it would, I think, be very encouraging.