Sorry we all can be as brilliant as you crying over living in the greatest country in the world because the doj hasn't paid us back yet. You're right this country is horrible.

pretty funny coming from the fat kid who wears cheesy poker shirts and claims to be a professional player and coach.

Well, it would seem you need to create some new organization that is not an embarrassment. I hope to see you get on that right away. Or perhaps you are one of those folks that feels entitled to have other folks do everything for them? Perhaps you are even one of those folks who derives some perverse pleasure by belittling those working to better your situation?

Whatever else you want to claim, you cannot truthfully claim that the PPA has failed to make the political establishment take notice of poker players. Just a few years ago the idea that poker players were a "constituency" was laughed at by most politicians. Now they here us and they listen to us.

They may not often do as we ask; we are far from the only constituency that politicians feel they have to listen to, and we have powerful enemies. But it is impossible to argue that poker players would be better off being ignored instead of being heard.

And the single person most responsible for poker players being heard is Rich Muny AKA "TheEngineer." Rich's efforts from 2006 to today have been enormous, and for the vast majority of that time, uncompensated. Rich began right here on 2+2 with the enormous task of trying to organize poker players into a coherent political body, and only later did he take his efforts to the PPA (seeing the PPA as the best vehicle for those efforts).

When online poker is finally made openly legal in the U.S. the single person that poker players will owe the most thanks to is Rich Muny.

Skallagrim

The PPA has been a failure because they play nice. Nobody ever wins at politics by playing nice. What they should have done (and I posted this long ago) is hire teams of private investigators to follow around lawmakers and their families and dig up dirt on them. Identify those lawmakers blocking poker legislation and heavily fund their opponents in primary races. Take the gloves off, and let politicians know that if they want to block our right to play poker, then we will retaliate and damage them politically. This is how powerful groups such as AIPAC and the NRA get their agendas implemented, not by begging and pleading. Politics is a dirty business, and if you aren't willing to play dirty you aren't going to get anywhere.

Sometimes the jokes just write themselves.

I believe it was 1.1 mil for 5k bonus.

And sometimes the jokes are people like you who know less then nothing about how the world works and eat whatever **** is shoveled at you.

I beg to differ, sir. Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton and Mitt Romney have all proven that hard work isn't directly proportional to financial success.

While you and the baby boomers are complaining about how today's generation is entitled and only seeking instant gratification, just remember, many of us got into poker because our neighbors "wash their own cars and mow their own lawns", so to speak. Poker wasn't just a selfish attempt to get something for nothing, but the closest thing to an actual opportunity some players had.

Providing a service for someone and receiving pay is a wonderful concept. However, it worked much better in the cut and dry world of yesteryear.

$20,000 (minus "expenses") for mowing 1000 lawns sounds reasonable, an average of about three lawns a day for a full year. That's until you realize that the "expenses" aren't a small, insignificant amount. Insurance and operating costs will shave at least $3,000-$4,000 off the top and taxes will consume almost another 1/3rd of what's left. That leaves somewhere around $11,000, or $11 per lawn. It seems hardly fair to blame someone for looking for an alternative to this.

Sure, you were just making an example, but cut and dry hypothetical examples are what got a lot of us in this mess to begin with.

skall i respect you taking the time to defend Rich. But everyone with any sense ignores these trolls that just toss insults. I'm a PPA supporter, and I'm willing to listen to the detractors, but moronic trolls just get ignored.

I wouldn't waste my time on them.

Undeniable point in some restricted dimensions and I would actually +1 this post so long as it is taken literally.

Anyone else from the US log into their account and find that their points balance was far far less than they were expecting it to be after ironman conversions? I suppose it doesn't matter that much since it looks like they aren't paying out anyway and I don't have enough value for it to be worth moving to get it off (about $150 in value instead of the $600 or so I was expecting), but still kind of annoying.

At best the US could be compared to being the smartest ******ed kid.

What's with all the anger. Surely you folks are mature enough to argue a issue rather than making childish personal insults.

Welcome to NVG.

So disgusting that the DoJ hasn't even given a status update in the 90 day window to repay ROW that Stars was given. Absolutely shameful.

whens the ppa suppose to have there meeting with the doj ?

and I thought we would be able to log in and see our balance?

on the 6th?

As usual, you don't bother to let the facts get in the way of your ridiculous suppositions and unsupported opinions.

The settlement stipulation says "The PokerStars Companies, within ninety days of the Closing Date, shall make available for immediate cash withdrawal, without limitation or restriction other than as required by any applicable law, the online poker account balances of all non-U.S. players of the Full Tilt Group, as of June 29, 2011, which are believed to total approximately $184 million."

Pursuant to the stipulation the closing date was defined in the following section "The transfer of the Forfeited Full Tilt Assets from the United States to the PokerStars Companies or their designees (the "Asset Transfer") shall take place within six business days of the latter of the Court's entry of this Stipulation and Order and the forfeiture of the Full Tilt Assets (the date of the Asset Transfer, the "Closing Date"), subject to the terms of Paragraph 2."

So, let's look at the actual facts and see how your claim lines up with them. The judge signed the order on July 31, 2012. Six (6) business days from that date would therefore be the closing date, which would be August 8, 2012 and, ta-da, 90 days from that date is today, November 6, 2012.

The stipulation was signed by the Attorneys on July 27, 2012. The trigger for the "closing date" and the 90 day countdown was the Judge's signature. He could have just as easily signed it before the 31st thus making the opening of FTP before 11/6. Unless, it's your claim that the US Judge conspired with the US Attorney for SDNY who conspired with the FTP and PStars attorneys to ensure that the relaunch and non-payment to FTP victims, an event so politically insignificant that candidates and their parties don't even have a published opinion on, "wouldn't have any impact on the election"? Yeah, sounds a little silly to me too!

Did I miss something in the Presidential debates where the hot topic of remissions to online Poker Players was mentioned? Is remissions to FTP US Players a plank in any of the candidates or their respective parties, in ANY election anywhere in the US occurring today? Have you, or anybody else here, even seen a mention of FTP Remissions anywhere in the mainstream media in the past 30-60 days?

You haven't because FTP remissions is a non-political issue. It is a legal issue and has/is being dealt with through the legal process. It is, for all practical purposes, a done deal, especially to any outsider looking in. Moreover, it is a non-event for most of the US and the ROW. Who in the US aside, from impacted players (and the PPA), even cares when the players get their money back? I'll answer that, NOBODY! I doubt you could find a truly sympathetic (non-poker player) ear to bend on the subject. US Players are going to get their money back. How bad can that really be? It was, for the longest time, in theory at least, "lost money". Getting it back, for me, is like finding money in the street. The key, and what seems to be so easily ignored here by so many, is the the money is coming back.

You can muster all the righteous indignation you want, but your "screaming to the media demanding equal treatment" can only fall on deaf ears. The media does not care. The politicians do not care. To an outsider I am sure it would appear US FTP victims are being both unreasonable and ungrateful. The DOJ managed to recover our money and are going to give it back. Those are the facts. Who will feel sorry for us because we have to wait just like every single other victim in every single other remissions case? Equal treatment? US FTP victims are being treated EXACTLY the same by the DOJ as US victims in other cases. It is lost on me why so many here feel they should be treated any differently than the Madoff victims, or the Xybernaut victims or any of the victims in the hundreds of other cases where money has been recovered by the DOJ and returned to the victims via remissions.

The process may suck. It get it. I even agree. But, it is the process available to the DOJ to give us back our money. We are stuck with it, as is the DOJ. Again though, there is good news. This process, albeit painfully slow, does ultimately work and our money will eventually find it's way to us.

LOL

So you're saying that six years is basically a blink of an eye, and the fact that the PPA has accomplished virtually NOTHING is because they just need more time.

How long do they need? Another 10 years? Another 20?

Do you think anyone would have donated to the PPA in 2006 if they could look into 2012 and see what the PPA has "accomplished" so far?


Look at the bolded, and then ask yourself seriously how ridiculous it is that our millions of dollars (and six years) have equated to those laughably abstract "victories".

Are you directly involved in the PPA, or are you just a huge fanboy? Because your rhetoric sounds exactly like the garbage that I read from The Engineer.

- "It's a long process, you can't expect a quick fix" --- even though the PPA has been at this fight for 6 years and spent millions of dollars doing so.

- "The situation could be worse. Online poker could be illegal to PLAY if it weren't for the PPA's efforts." --- even though there is no credible evidence that this is true, or that there was any kind of credible federal effort to criminalize playing online poker.

- "What have YOU done for the cause? What gives you a right to complain?" -- I donated to the PPA like everyone else who was duped into believing it was a competent organization. Give me millions of dollars for the cause and I'll do a better job. Until then, don't turn the attack around on me.


No, because I've read everyone else's threads and posts trying to suggest things to the PPA, and they get attacked and/or told why their idea is crap.

I have a challenge for YOU. Can you link me to a single thread in the past 6 years where the PPA has changed direction as the result of a suggestion by an otherwise outsider poker player? I'm talking about where the PPA admits they were going about something the wrong way, and were made aware of it by one of the 2+2 forum members. Has that EVER happened in the past 6 years? Or has the PPA been so perfect that none of us peons could ever possibly help improve them?


We didn't need to spend millions on the PPA to have Pappas or Raymer get on television to tell the public that internet poker players aren't evil.

There are plenty of well-spoken, intelligent people in the poker community who would have done this for free.


The Engineer can't hide behind bull**** like, "This is my personal view, not the PPA's view", because he represents a high-profile organization like the PPA (with the logo and everything, as you pointed out).

Holding a visible leadership position means swallowing your pride at times and treating people politely and respectfully, even if you dislike them or think they're being unreasonable. When you bite their heads off, but then qualify it by claiming that it's only your own personal opinion and not representative of the organization, your organization still looks terrible.

This all goes back to the popular (and accurate) perception of the PPA: It's an intractable group of elitists that believe they are smarter and more capable than everyone else, and that their logic is always infallible. They are not approachable and open to suggestion, but rather command the unwashed masses to do as they say.

That's not what we thought we were getting when we donated over the past several years.

Your position that unless I run my own poker advocacy organization I have no right to criticize those that currently exist is beyond absurd. I suppose by your logic if anyone wants critically examine the decisions of the President of the United States they have no right until they themselves run the executive branch of the US government.

I think that being the leading voice connecting poker players with legislators is a major responsibility. When Rich Muny scoffs at the notion that getting poker players reunited with life-changing money would ever be a part of PPA's mission I think it's entirely appropriate to take offense. Expecting the leader of the PPA to handle such an issue with more sensitivity is not something I feel "entitled" to, just something I would think would be only natural.

Sorry, Skippy. I don't even play poker. I can see that your reads are horrible, just like your read on the Full Tilt cash. It has been 20 months and you have received zero. Next month it will be 21 and I will remind you of that.

You will get NOTHING...and like it.

Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton have been responsible for more legitimate business than any of these loser poker players ever will. Those people create interest wherever they go, and are paid 6 and 7 figures just to show up. They are more successful than the most successful poker player ever. Both have large families that they talk to every day, and both pay their own way in life.

Both can get a credit card or a line of credit at any bank, unlike most poker players who cannot get anything that involves regular society.

Sorry. Poker players are the lowest of the low. How can anyone respect poker players when they allow millions upon millions of dollars to be stolen from them, while doing absolutely zero to the perpetrators.

Haha. Too funny. Time for most on here to get jobs? Even when times were good for poker players, you would see threads from people asking for advice on what to tell people they do for a living. Now that is CLASSIC. Some of these people made well into the six figures per year and yet they were still too ashamed to admit how they spent their time. That says it all.

It is even worse now. These clowns now have to try to explain what they did with their lives when they send resumes to potential employers, or even have conversations with people. The best part is that now they are BUSTED.

WTF is this?

Can we just put a 100 character limit on all posts ITT from now on? Maybe ban a few people who are just using it to troll.

fyp