that's a different argument. It would be +ev for me to play 1/2 nl but it wouldn't be worth my time and I'd be miserable playing it. But that doesn't make it -ev.

And maybe you could make $1000 as a male escort, doesn’t make 5/10 PLO or whatever negative EV

less ev or -ev same difference Beyond that you could spend that time playing sats doing other things. Playing with your dog, petting your cat or banging your significant other

This doesn't make Berkey stupid but is a completely whack way to look at poker imo. He's said on numerous occasions he looks at poker as some cooperative rather than something where he should try to maximize his own ev.

With that argument all poker is -ev... its lower ev than real career pursuits for pretty much anyone.

is it?

I feel like if you make it to high stakes with a good winrate, it's pretty hard to overcome in the real world, it's like as much money as a surgeon would make in the west

That’s a ridiculous statement lmao

The most +EV thing in poker is owning a poker room or a poker training site.

When you look at it this way, the most -EV thing in poker... is being a player.

If you can make money in high stakes poker, I have no doubt that you can be a Bill Perkin's level expert at a trading desk somewhere, if the same amount of effort were applied to mastering this craft.

I think I just debunked the title of this thread

If you are at that level you would have made millions in banking/finance/consulting etc with the same amount of effort/studying and time spent applying your skill in practice. Most people will make way less than a surgeon playing poker.

I mean I might have, don't think I'd be happier though, it feels it'd be a fair bit more boring than poker

Think Warren Buffett. Not sure if anyone here read any biography of him (I read Snowball a few years ago). The guy pretty much didn´t want to work for other people, he made an exception to the brokerage firm of his father, as he needed the money ofc, and then to Ben Graham, his hero he even offered to work for free previously. As Ben Graham stepped down, dude simply decided to return to Omaha, and would be pretty happy just investing his money by himself and spending his days reading, had his family and friends not asked him to manage money for them.

Poker is a perfect way to not have a real job, if that's also what you want and you have the talent for it. You guys making it sound like life is 100% about EV, and putting poker and working in finance/banking in the same sentence, is just ridiculous.

Yeah a lot of people seem to think that if there is anything else you can do besides poker that makes the same amount or more, then you should quit playing poker forever and do that other thing instead. Maybe that's what's best for THEM, but others just wanna play cards

Also, you have to actually get the job. Get promotions when deserved, etc.

I remember some Wall Street guys telling Ivey he could have made more on WS and I thought, how would that work? When he was 22 or so, he goes to Wall Street and is like, "hi everyone, I'm Phil Ivey. I'm super smart and competitive. In another timeline I'd be a legendary poker player, but I'm offering my services to you instead. Let the bidding begin!"

You can often be playing poker while being paid from that job. Or sitting by pool, sleeping, drinking whatever

There’s pros and cons but now that most people are telecommuting things are much more cozy. The worst aspect of jobs was the showing up part.

Now that online poker is not nearly as good it’s almost like these considerations reversed themselves. Poker players are the ones that have to show up to the office.