yes just like most games, we'll move on then to something else

Boom. Gotta make it tough on the computers and multi-tablers.

Ben86 needs to be blacklisted from all poker activities tbh. Enough is enough.

Haven't it been proven that online pros are the same and even better than live pros?
Look at fedor, trueteller, haxton, and others people and live pros are disapearing one by one.
You dont need to attack someone who has aspergers or autism dude. No one is as lucky as you.

yeh tough **** for us who love NLHE but never got a chance to get good

there're many flaws in the solvers imo

I'm too lazy to go back and find it, but one of the developers who had a thread for his HUD product in the commercial software forum (ugh, notecaddy? maybe?) mentioned something in the thread about having to disable some modules in his software before PS would OK it for use... the disabled modules went too far toward telling the user what move to make.

I personally PM'd a guy who had a really good start on a PLO solver in the forum. He replied back that he had already been contacted by a HS pro and was now commissioned to develop it for exclusive use.

My point is, anybody who doesn't think software has been out there to make poker decisions in real time for several years is naive.

Go back and read punter and sam in the claudico thread.

This beautifully harrowing tale had me in tears from both laughter and crippling emotional devastation. The artist, the wonderful man or woman behind this post is a master in moving us through the medium of words. I truly hop that we see many such posts in the future, and I wouldn't mind being PMd a large excerpt, or an entire novel of this golden material.

The way online poker has changed is pretty fascinating.

It started as just poker..but all of the software has changed it. I lost interest once HUDs happened. Now there are solvers, bots and god knows what else.

It was a natural evolution, but it's ruined the spirit of the game.

And the economics of it. Perhaps as much as black friday..I'm not sure.

along with bots, ma'ers/cheaters, scumbag site owners, etc etc etc

Yup, those too. But I really think it was the software that killed it. It was bound to happen--and while it's a shame, it is pretty fascinating for someone with no real programming knowledge but an appreciation for it.

do you think having antes big enough that actually covers rake easily and makes the games more swingy bigger variance etc, so say for example instead of antes being 1/5th of the bb have antes half a full bb or whatever, the games are so tight atm when comparing to say 2009 that having bigger antes would totally loosen up the games and suit recs.

Also 100 200 and 250bb deep tables. Preflop ranges would be totally different since players would have to play more hands.

FYP!

OFC Pineapple!!!

The argument that software is just the next advance and are just the same as book or talking to good players is missing a key point.

The skills learned by solvers are one thing and if people use them to learn those skills then fine, but its when they are applied beyond the ability of the human memory when the game changes. No one can remember millions of hands and exact player specific tendencies. In a live brick and mortar game this means its impossible to know how far a villian plays from equilibrium. But this software does something that no human mind can do and thus changes the game and makes it an essentially unfair game.

Take chess as an example. There is nothing wrong with master using amazing tools to simulate and learn, but when they sit down next to each other if they use anything other than their minds its cheating. Similarly it is outright cheating in poker when you use tools that do things that you could never do in your head.

Agree, but no one is just possible to have any live programs for PLO yet, no way. For shallow NL, esp HU yeah. HU 100bb, possibleish, 6max 100bb, I mean I guess with some shortcuts in the way it is done. And this is obviously considered cheating, when studying these off the tables and implementing that into your game is not.

this. the software is good for learning but thats how it should be kept. you use it to learn/ train yourself then at the tables you apply that learning.

problem is many using those tools dont actually learn from it and struggle to apply what they learned at the tables without it running. they simply train themselves to depend on the software tools to play. take away the tools and suddenly they cant win as much. of course some people use the tools as they were really meant and improve their game with it. they might run huds while they play at times to learn but they dont always depend on it and they use the human part to do things in which the software might not suggest/hint at which actually wins them money they wouldnt have had otherwise.

huds n other training tools/aids as a training tool i have no problem with. but those who truly want to improve their skills who break the dependancy on those aids are few and far between. because greed takes over and many simply use them to try and print money. many of them probably wouldnt even play if they couldnt use any software aids because they really arent interested in playing poker or having skills. they just want fast easy quick money

Confirmed, they're all over the place now..


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is there a vibrator in that box?

With multiple branches, quite gto dare I say

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Before you say what is possible and what is not I suggest you to check following threads.

Ben86 said on podcast that PLO bots were "crappy" and crushed only because games are/were so soft on lower stakes.
I disagree with Ben about that.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...-them-1537778/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...8/index16.html

Apparently it embroiders all the answers. This thing needs to be stopped.

When evaluating any particular tool just ask, "would a casino let me do this". If the answer is no, that is because it either a) gives an unfair advantage or b) it creates the perception of an unfair advantage that is bad for the long term health of the game. If it wouldn't fly in a B&M casino there is no reason it should be allowed online. For example no Casino would ever let me access the surveillance camera to watch every single hand a particular opponent played in the last 6 months. Why should that be allowed online? would a casino let me take out my phone and run a piece of software or make a calculation before I make a decision? of course not because the game if supposed to be me vs you, not me vs you and your phone. Why should I be allowed to do that online?

Yeah but bots even if they would've been quite good and GTOmachines does not always mean the same thing.