You guys are wasting your time trying to explain yourself to people like PeteBlow. He's literally a pub player from the UK that has zero idea about high stakes vegas games and how real world poker works.

It has been ignored because it is

1. likely based in reality,
2. doesn't provide the answer whining posters may seek,
3. is well-written, and
4. basically makes sense.

Also,

5. this is NVG.

That last one is a big "maybe". Hasn't worked for me.

And Chip Reese was arguably the all-time example.

Right
The problem is so many dip****s think poker especially live poker is about how you fundamentally play poker (it matters but way less than they realize) and they think fish will play no matter how much fun they have or how they're treated

They're imbeciles and while some of them may still be able to win online,they make scraps live while players often worse than them fundamentally make the real money

While I was working on a client matter unrelated to this issue, I happened across the relevant Statute in Nevada. Apparently a casino CAN refuse entry to a person to play in a Salon, so long as it is not for a prohibited reason:

NRS 463.4076  Admission of patrons to gaming salon: Conditions; restrictions; resolution of disputes.

1.  The admission of a patron to a gaming salon:

(a) May be restricted on the basis of the financial criteria of the patron as established by the licensee and approved by the Board; and

(b) Must not be restricted on the basis of the race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, physical disability, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression of the patron.

2.  Any unresolved dispute with a patron concerning restriction of admission to a gaming salon shall be deemed a dispute as to the manner in which a game is conducted pursuant to NRS 463.362 and must be resolved pursuant to NRS 463.362 to 463.366, inclusive.

So, being a nit or not-fun player is not likely a protected class ... as it is not listed.

Maybe its based in their roots. I started playing poker because I was having problems w drugs and alcohol and my friends missed me. They invited my to a house game of spread limit 2-20$ anytime. I had never played hold m but won 720$.
I continued to play because it was FUKKKINGFUN. The players were fun. I had fun w out drinking or sticking a straw in my skull.
My point is, I entered the poker world not to win 1.2 BBsph w a tight VIP, I entered to have fun. online poker, MM effect and juicy home games( nothing like playing 100-200$ paduka, aka badugi, w guys that have never played b4) then turned it into a career.

I play mostly hS now, but in Aruba a few years ago they only had 2-4 Lh running w a obnoxious rake, but I played and had fun

He's probably posting from his tablet while playing live poker

Thats my point
You play to have fun
I've stayed in bad games bc the people were fun we were drinking etc

What you described is a lot of fun

But I doubt you'd enjoy online nl In 2019

In DGAF's thread I mentioned the 5/10 PL I got going the other day for a rec that he ended up not really enjoying ("how do you play with these people?") compared to the games he's used to. I didn't mention the short "conversation" I had with a pro after my buddy left.

Him: "When do you think X will come back?"
Me: "Never, this game was really small for him and he came to have fun. Almost nobody else did anything that would make him have fun"
Him: "He's a degenerate. He'll be back"

And then I had a near death experience where it felt like my soul was leaving my body at the poker table.

1. Did you keep playing ?
2. Him/"pro" sounds like a very short-sighted, entitled guy. Especially since your buddy apparently has other options available where he has fun
3. Good for your buddy, listen to your buddy, not the "pro".

1. Yes. I play any game I start/organize until it breaks unless the game runs >12 hours and I need to play again the next day or I have a very special reason to leave. Or I am buried and the game will be fine without me.

2. Yes. Welcome to midstakes public poker games in 2019. It's not a pleasant place, and I try to avoid it. I'm friendly with "pro" but he's old and set in his ways and I truthfully don't really care to even try changing the way anyone else behaves. Behavior like this is exactly why high stakes Vegas games are the way they are. I'd rather that fun players never have to experience this kind of behavior, even if it means there are games that I get locked out of too.

3. Yes. My buddy is the very fun and friendly recreational player that asked me to get a game together at the last minute for him. He's one of my 3 living poker heroes. He didn't want to play 5/10 in the first place but that was the best I could do for him on short notice on a Friday at that particular casino. Our normal game is 25/25 or 25/25/50 PLO or 200/400 mix with people who are fun to play with, so 5/10 PL in an unfun game won't be on his to do list again any again in the near future.

So, I know this is kind of old news. I read this thread back when it started but forgot somewhat about this issue. Partially because of the ignorance caused by it not being a direct concern of mine considering I'm playing high enough stakes...

However, this summer this issue has come to my attention in another fashion.
This summer I got a position at the Aria as a poker dealer. Honestly it was a pretty darn good gig. Decently itchy uniforms, not an atrocious EDR, and normal deals on employee coffee. Not to mention embellishing to others how AMAZING it is to work as dealer at one of the “worlds best poker rooms.” Yada, yada, yada…
With all that aside, I did get my fair share of time dealing at the oh so coveted Table Jaun. Pretty intimidating the first time pushing in not going to lie. You get used to it however. It becomes… Standard. You even get used to getting yelled at for ambiguous ‘table/game rules’ made up out of thin air that weren’t even pertinent a few hands before by a few of the well adjusted patrons that seemingly would put a bunk bed for themselves in that room if the floor allowed them too. They want to own that room. That status means that much too them. That could be why they act so miserable.
It is quite an odd spectacle to see that many people, sitting around a table, throwing around what could be a year’s salary for me in one hand, with 15 year’s salary behind. It’s also quite odd to listen to them talk. I kid you not… Almost every sentence that comes out of there mouths is a cleverly disguised attempt at status jockeying one another and letting whoever will listen know they got money to burn, the best stock trading tips, and who owns what. I’m thankful for the job, but it gets mind numbing. I’m not jealous of your wealth. I’m certain I would be the same way if I was able to attain it… Now toss me that quarter for the down and let’s get this over with. I’m looking forward to taking that quarter in my $500 Toyota Camry to Mint Indian Bistro for the third time this week after work and buying as much diarrhea inducing food it will get me.
Table 1 reminds me of summer camp. Remember the school bus that had that half seat in the back? The seat that was shorter than the rest and if you sat in it you were king? That’s kind how Table 1 seems to be...
So, here is what I’ve surmised about private games at Aria…
There are multiple private games that happen at Aria at the same time. They usually run every day during the series. At first I didn’t know they were private games. I was too worried about dealing and doing my job to really put it together. These games take place at Table 1, or in the upstairs part to the Aria Poker Room. These are tables 2-5. Now not every game that is ‘upstairs’ is a private game. There are plenty of high stakes public games going on from holdem, to 25-50-100 PLO. If it is anything over 50-100, you can bet your bankroll it is a private game.
Now I’m not a lawyer, and I have heard mixed opinions on whatever does or doesn’t constitute as a private game. I’m also not really certain of whether or not Nevada has any statutes or laws on the matter. Like I said, I’ve heard mixed information.
However, these games for all intents and purposes are private. Now when it comes to these games, they have a placard on the table. The placard says the game, the stakes, and the rake. For these games they say “Reserve.” Which I assume is just a nice little technicality right? The rake for these games is $200 every half hour.
Now every private game has essentially a game host, or someone who put the game together and calls all the shots. He chooses the players, he chooses the stakes, he says who can and cannot participate in the game. How he finds players, I don’t know. I’m sure it’s art form.
I have on a handful of occasions been just-so in the lineup that I have either pushed into a private game about to start or into a “dead spread” at a table that was going to host a private game where the host and players were waiting. The things I’ve heard were well… Interesting to say the least.
There was one occasion where the host and one other player playing that game showed up early before the game started. They essentially discussed swapping action with each other in addition to their intentions to be in pots together against a certain player. This player was apparently a loose cannon whom I heard about the day before while dealing another private game, in which the host was playing as a guest.
On another occasion a few days later, I pushed into a dead spread where a host (lets call him Host B) was discussing the terms of the table with a friend he invited. His friend was taking some fire because he invited a guy the Host B didn’t know. I’ll come back to this in a moment… Here is some background…
I have dealt a private game for Host B twice prior. The first time was at Table 3. The second time I dealt to Host B during his private game was on Table 1 and this is when I realized these were private games… The game was just starting. I was about 3 hands into the down when a guy (let’s call him Rando) walks into the room and introduces himself to Host B. They shoot the breeze for a few minutes and throw names of people they both mutually know around. Apparently, the guy runs games back home in his home country and Host B knew one of the players that played in the game. Rando tells Host B that he has a guy in town with enough money to play in the game. The very first thing that came out of Host B’s mouth was “is he a professional poker player, I don’t want pro’s playing in this game? Does he make a living playing poker?” Rando said that he wasn’t. Host B then asks what he did for a living and how he got his money. Rando replied that the man was a businessman that did X and X and assured Host B that he was good action. Host B said they had players coming and he would let Rando know. They exchanged numbers and Rando left… Now this is the moment that I remembered this thread.
I immediately realized that this game was sitting only 5 handed. I remembered the talk about the ‘phantom chips stacks.” There were no phantom chip stacks at this game. However, since this event I have noticed them twice. I also know that every game at the Aria plays 9 handed unless its Big O, they allow 8 players.
So, I checked Bravo… There are 5 players at the table, but all 9 seats have been logged in. All the present players were logged in. Every empty seat was logged in as guest. I decided to open all the available seats up using the bravo at the table. During the end of my down when the “Floor Supervisor” came back into the room to check on this Host B got up from the table (Remember this game just started) and gave the floor man two $100 black chips and said “thanks for taking care of us.”
When I pushed and went to leave the floor pulled me aside and reprimanded me. He said the only button I need to push when dealing for Table 1 is the S button (which is for supervisor. It’s what we press for floor calls as well.) He said to never log anyone in or out of Table 1. I played stupid and said ok.
So back to Host B giving his friend the business for inviting a player Host B didn’t know… The player that was causing a stir showed up to the table and pulled about 10-$5000 flags out of his little sack and put them on the table. Host B then asked him if he was a pro and the player said yes. Host B was upset and said that he would most likely not be allowed to play in the game. He said if for some off chance that he was going to be allowed to play in game that he would have to splash around and play a lot of hands. The player walked away from the table to let the others two discuss what they were going to do about the situation. Eventually the player was asked to leave and said he wasn’t allowed to play in the game. I recorded 6 minutes or so of this conversation on my phone… Because you know. Journalism…
Whoever is the host of the game usually has a particular seat. On Table 1 whoever is running the game usually sits in the 9 seat position or the 8 seat position, this allows them to see who is coming in and out of the room. On table 2, the host usually sits in the 2 or the 3 seat for the same reason. On table 4, the host usually sits in the 9 seat or the 8 seat. The host could be anyone, and they all play on different tables given the day. Who ever gets to Table 1 first gets the table. But the point is that the game hosts want to know who is coming around there game.

The floor basically runs interference on behalf of the hosts. They get tipped quite handsomely for it as well. Should anyone inquire about the game or if it is full, and the host doesn’t want them to play, the floor simply just turns the person in another direction. This has posed some concern for those seeking higher employment at the Aria as well. This has formed a pretty toxic I scratch your back you scratch mine mentality among those in higher positions in the poker room. It basically means that they only allow people to move up to those positions if they are deemed worthy enough to play “Private Game Ball.” Which sometimes means that people who are capable and astute to be a floor person are turned away for those that became subservient (not in a good way) to those above them. Those in those positions have each other’s backs and know all the right things to say should someone come asking about the private games. It’s a clique. It’s a mob. I had two instances where the floor GROSSLY disrespected a dealer. Both times, the dealers went to higher ups to address the issue and upon further investigation, nothing was done because it would mean not siding against someone you run private games with. Those tips mean more than social contract apparently…. On a separate not a friend of mine is on the toke comity at the Aria. She said that who ever is flooring the tournaments gets to dip into the tokes. That makes sense. However, she said that certain floor people are allowed to take $200 each from each tournament that runs during the World Series. So that's upwards of $800-$1000 per tournament being taken from tokes PER TOURNAMENT which sometimes the Aria runs 3 or 4 tournaments a day. The rest doesn't go to the dealers. The tourny tokes are set at a set amount. Whatever is in excess goes to the floor AS WELL. I don't know if this is standard practice. But food for thought....

Should Aria every be confronted about their private games… There are a litany of loopholes and rabbit trails and playing stupid that they can send people down.

Sick nostalgia

Living Abortion, you need to work on formatting, need some spaces in between paragraphs.

But nice post otherwise.

Sorry I wrote this in microsoft and pasted it in so the initial breaks in paragraphs didn't translate when pasting. I'll edit better in future posts. Sorry about that.

also another typo... "Partially because of the ignorance caused by it not being a direct concern of mine considering I'm NOT * playing high enough stakes..."

maybe here? a much more complete thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...98/?highlight=

I'll add some as someone who was was employed in gaming almost a decade and a half.

high rollers are notoriously private people. each for their own reasons. but they are just like you and I -human beings who enjoy good interaction. sometimes their lifestyle leaves them a bit isolated.

I played a fantastic 2-5 game at the wynn last time I was in LV. it wasnt fantastic because i was getting hit in the head with the deck. it was great because everyone at the table was interactive. there was an old timer there talking abt pearl harbour. another older guy in seat 10 who had been playing in events in the wsop since back in the day. a sports bettor. a couple guys on vacation. we talked was Brady better than Montana. the pearl harbour vet told us abt that day. the guys on vacation abt their lives. it was 4 hours of the best poker I have ever played and I've played a lot of rooms with a lot of people. it rekindled my love of the game.

it was great because everyone was interactive. there were no hoodies and headphones at our table. it was fun and enjoyable.

that is what the experience that high roller wants and the casino will cater to that person. to the OP -you, as a player, dont matter. your wants and demands dont matter. what matters is that man's experience. and the casino will give it to him because he pays the bills, not you.

hope this helps.

ITT

nice post LA. I'm always curious where tourney tips go. I'll just give it to my dealers personally next time I see them at the tables.

Well... Truth is this is only what I heard. I do believe the source to be reputable. I did ask if there was any way that the gal on the toke comity could furnish some level of proof about this but she said that would be fairly risky and would violate some level of confidentiality. Which absolutely makes sense.

The best I could come up with was I pulled 3 seasoned dealers there aside and asked them what they knew about this issue. These dealers have worked for the Aria 4,5, and 7 years. I also spoke with one newer dealer that had access to that level of knowledge given her ties to upper management, she often deals in the PokerGO Studio and knows what is what around the Aria. Of the 4 that I spoke too only 3 of them said that they were fairly certain that this was happening, and not in a "I'm not making the exuberant amounts of money I used to in the best poker eras, so obviously something is up." They seemed desensitized by the fact that this was true and shrugged it off as if that the price of dealing at the Aria. One gentlemen got slightly passionate about the tokes and expressed his frustration to me and that for those dealing year round there it was semi-common knowledge that this was happening. Apparently they have had dealers leave their coveted positions at the aria because of this toke issue.
To only one of them it seemed like this issue was new news.

The thing I do not understand is if this is common around poker rooms, or some, or just the Aria. I understand if people that aren't dealers dip into the tokes. I mean, thats the point of rake. I guess to the extent that apparently its been happening is a bit shocking if true. $200 each floor person in the tournament area, per tournament, per day seems overboard, or I'm just jealous...

I have an acquaintance who was a higher up at the Wynn Poker Room. He got fired because coke is hell of a drug but I'll ask him next time i see him.

Again, I don't have any actual proof of this. I also understand that things like this can become lore among employees. Someone semi-reputable says something as a joke or is simply being speculative. Someone hears it and changes the meaning of the controversial-off-hand comment to now be fact during their smoke break trying to blow off steam. And the game of Gossip Telephone over the next few years takes over and a new verse gets added to the religion of F*** This Job.

I Dunno...

I befriended a dealer at the Bicycle Casino back in March during the WSOP Circuit event, she deals the series in Vegas but her home casinos are the Bike and Hustler. I was curious and asked "you must make a lot from tips during the series?" I was shocked by her reply, the most she ever made from dealing the entire WSOP series was a single $35 in tips. She did admit that she made more per hour in Vegas then she would if she stayed in LA to deal during the same time period.

Then she clued me in on this ugly secret, the tourney "tip jar" at both the Bike and Commerce aren't for the dealers like most players would assume. The tips go entirely to the floor people, not the dealers.

I even watched this go down last week during a tourney at the bike. We were on the bubble and I was in seat 1 facing the tourney floor/desk and I watched the floor person move the empty tip jar from underneath the counter and place it on top of the table. Thinking no one was watching, he then proceeded to take a $10 and $20 bill from his wallet and placed it in the jar! I guess you need to "prime" the pump otherwise that jar would stay empty.

Sorry about the small sidetrack, but I've been fascinated by dealer tips ever since I recently won a cash game bad beat jackpot at Commerce and discovered that whatever amount I tipped the dealer at the end of the day their share would be added to a pool that was then divided up amongst a group of dealers. The dealer who dealt the jackpot doesn't get to keep the entire amount and/or might not even get the share at all because they rotate which group of dealers get that weeks tips. The only way around this would be to make arraignments with the dealer (behind the casinos back) to meet them somewhere off-site and then give them money directly.

The worst tip policy I ever witnessed was playing blackjack at a casino in South Africa. I was winning and began tipping the dealer "appropriately" by US conventions ... i.e variously placing bets for the dealer or handing over a tip..

I was informed that was a waste of time because anything you gave the dealer went to the casino, not to that dealer or any other dealer.

Lol at Sean Mccormick tweeting for ACR. Just shows that he's a total sellout and can be bought.

I'm updating this thread with a recent Tweet from Will Jaffe. Will is referring to private games at the Wynn I believe (and not ARIA), but the rest directly applies to thread title.

Is it really about networking and learning new skills? Or should "Benny The Whale" pay for his own pole-side buffets?