As reported by pokernews.

Flop 356hihh. Turn blank.

Both players allin with 55 and KhKx.

Dealer mucks river card.

http://www.pokernews.com/live-report...ost.239831.htm

Lol hand is void?

Either card should be flipped or shuffled and river redrawn.

the player with 555 has been shafted there

If the facts are as stated, we have a new leader in top ten worst tournament decisions.

Haha, the hand is void? WTF. Why not just void the entire tournament and start over. Horrible ruling.

Yeah clearly people that never played poker running poker tournaments is a bad idea.

If the dealt card can't be identified, deal the next card instead. Sheesh. LOL live poker.

Equity chop?

I don't know if more info has come out, but it's not out of the question local regulator rules mandate a misdeal in certain situations, and that's the reason for the ruling.
That aside, this is pretty bad. But really just the same as the old floor person cop out of "chop the pot".

Terrible ruling. Literally the worst possible decision outside of voiding the whole tournament.

Scary if dealer can void any hand by mucking river; especially after seeing allin hands face up.

If they had this rule in Spain a foreigner would never win.

Worst possible ruling.

Wow pretty messed up, worst ruling in tournament history? Because this sort of thing wouldn't ever cause collusion?? Insanity...

Lol, this.

agreed, and it might sound harsh, but if thats the true ruling then the dealer should be instantly relieved of their duties for the rest of that event. If it happens to the dealer twice in their lifetime then they should never be allowed deal on that tour and possibly even in that country again

Although better than what actually happened this would probably be the second worst ruling. Unless people are cheating and basing their decisions on marked cards, it doesn't matter whether it was the first or second or third card from the deck that gets dealt as the river. An equity chop is also not fair to the other players left in the tournament. In a tournament variance is almost always a bad thing. Allowing them both to make their variance 0 is taking away equity from non-all-in players.

Yeah this ruling is completely absurd. I mean I could delve into an extended rant, but basically this is NEVER a voided hand. That's all I'm going to say about it.

This is why I think it's so dumb that the TDA rules include things about preserving the order of the deck and stuff like that.

If the deck is randomly shuffled why should anyone care whether they get dealt the 2nd or 3rd next card as the river (because one is the burn?) They shouldn't. IMO just deal a river.

As has been said, horrible ruling. Even if it does follow TDA (I'm unsure) then TDA's rules need to change.

How does anyone with any reasonable common sense make a call like that. These are the guys in charge?

its australia their level of play in live poker is like 2004-era

no surprise they ****ed it up

Did the river card fall into the bad beat jackpot slot?

Dealer angle action for buddies now open...

Matt savage made a long ruling on his Facebook. Originally he says shuffle all cards (including discards). Obviously thats incorrect.

Then he backs off that and goes to random card theory.

Can someone copy his explanation and post in this thread?

This is what Matt Savage had to say about it


First of all I want to say that any time I get asked a question on email, Twitter, Facebook, call, or text I try and answer it on the spot as if I had to answer it at the table otherwise it's not really fair because that TD doesn't have the luxury of a long thought out answer. It's also the case because many times it's happening live and they need and answer right away or even better that there is a monetary bet based on my decision. 😄

Now about the ruling in question:
I think we all agree on one thing that if the card is CLEARLY IDENTIFIABLE and RETRIEVABLE it should be used. Some people I have heard from actually agree with the ruling and some think even an equity chop is the way to go, I do not. IMO a pot should NEVER be chopped once significant action has taken place with the exception of a "foul deck."

So the hand needs to be completed and this is where the term I like to use of "random card theory" comes into play. My original quick answer on Twitter was that all of the cards (muck and stub) be shuffled back together and then a river card dealt with no burn. This is the only way the original river card could possibly hit the river. I am still ok with this original decision but have given it more thought and am open to other arguments of "use only the stub" "use the next card from the stub" "use only the stub, burn and turn river." These are all fine IMO and all better then killing the hand. There is no perfect answer here and as new situations happen like this one I think it's great that a discussion happens. Remember "random card theory" in your rebuttal.

It is also perfect timing as the TDA Summit dates are getting finalized for June to see what the top TD's around the world think as they converge on Vegas this summer.

1 of the worst ruling ever seen tbh, also dealers/ppl will always make mistakes but to say its his fault yes but to say if he does this 2 times in his life he should lose his job is a even worse decision.
Its a standard rule were i come from that if this situ occurs then u shuffle the remaning cards left in the deck & burn/turn simple.
the worst ruling i ever seen in a casino was a player getting his KK back out the muck in a large pot on the river after the dealer mucked his cards accidently, it was a reg v a non-reg surprise surprise. Yup he won pot with Kings full