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Old 12-01-2017, 09:02 PM   #26
yellowfever
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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Personally, I want the freedom that would come with poker. I work 5-6 days a week, 55-65hrs doing cost estimation. Takes plenty of work and comes with built in stress. But my earnings in this field are not as directly correlated with the amount of work that I put in. Working hard in poker doesn't guarantee that you will always win, but I'd be willing to bet it correlates to your earning potential. Poker will obv have stress built in when I depend on winning to live.

My observation is that the live poker economy isn't in rapid decline. There is plenty of money to be made. Additionally, Im not looking to get filthy rich from poker. I look at it as a way to reclaim my time while earning a standard living. Not tryna ball out from poker.
Poker is still going to take 5-6 days a week and 55-65(or even more hours) to make money. You'll need to work on your game off the tables as well. You wont be showing up 4 times a week for 8 hours Mon-Thursday and printing money.

Sure working hard translate to a higher ceiling in poker. Most jobs it does as well fig you get raises,bonuses, and promotions. In poker you'll have huge downswings while your working as hard as possible on your game and still not make money for long periods of time. The worst part is unlike a job you lose money when things go bad.

The software and bots make the games tougher. Poker is not some cool fad anymore. Its a dying game. Real time solvers will get better and better with stronger computing power available. I'd not suggest to anyone to play poker full time outside of the absurdly gifted players.

The one thing thats great about playing poker(online) is u can travel anywhere u want and make money. Thats the one thing im thankful for with poker as ive traveled all over the past 5 years and you cant do that with a 9-5. If you have a job you eventually will get to retire with benefits and have more time to do what you want then guys playing poker pro right now like me. Most poker pros will be scrambling to get into something else in the next 5 years as the game dies even more while you could be that much closer to retiring and having all the time u want.
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Old 12-01-2017, 09:20 PM   #27
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Had to add one more thing. The guys who've made the most money in poker the past year havent done it playing poker. They did it from holding bitcoins which many pokersites payout on nowadays.

Invest in some cryptos, keep your job, play in spare time for fun is best course of action in 2018-future poker climate.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:01 PM   #28
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

I'm not a grinder, nor will I ever be one. I'll be 40 next year. I learned to play lots of card games starting at age 5. Mostly from my grandfather, we played 5 card draw, 7 card stud, black jack, rummy etc... not for money just fun and I always enjoyed card games. I played some poker(not NLH, mostly the crazy wild card games, we're talking late 90's) here and there in college and the first game I played in a casino was when I was 22 and it was 1-5 7 card stud. My friends and I would go to Atlantic city occasionally on weekends, it was fun, we were young and would win some money usually. Eventually I moved to the 5/10/15/20 stud game, which still until this day is my favorite game that I have ever played but unfortunately eventually disappeared. Moneymaker happened and Hold em came around but I still played mostly stud and mixed games since they still existed and continued to do so until I moved to Florida in 2012 where there is only NLH so that's what I mostly play now.

I have always enjoyed poker as a fun hobby that made me a little money on the side. More so when I played mixed games. I have always enjoyed poker but it just isn't something I ever desired to do for a living, nor do I think I could have. I feel I wouldn't enjoy that and would lose interest grinding it out for a living. I played also for fun online from 2004-2009 but I enjoy live poker much more, probably because I am the olds.

Working a 9-5 job I have done well, way better than I would have faired as a pro poker player. My plan is to retire by 50, travel, play poker for fun and enjoy life.

For everyone it is different, some want to try and earn a bunch of money playing poker young and then either continue doing that or get into something else later in life. For me a better path was through a different career that will allow me to retire younger than most and enjoy the later part of life doing whatever I want.

Mandatory Old Guy Advice: Whichever path you choose, money management is the key. Whether it's poker or a 9-5 if you don't have good money management you will be stuck grinding one of the 2 way longer then you want to.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:15 AM   #29
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

well i guess it depends no? i had a stable job and played part time until i was 29, then decided i wanted to try full time and done fairly well for the last 5 years playing a mix of mid stakes plo online and high stakes live plo with some mtts here and there... i have been happier this last 5 years than i have ever been, tbf i have been lucky that i done well and i have an intense passion for the game than hasn't gone away even with downswings...so i for me in my mid 30's seemed like the right choice (i do own some BTC that i hope to retire with later on if things go well :P )
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:29 AM   #30
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

no one retires bighitter not you or the guy in seat #2 with all the answers .
This is not the rubics cube where if you line up the effin colors you win at the game of life.
One day you will sit in a weekly with a perpetual running toilet and blood pricks on the ceiling above the bed from a junkie shooting up and you will be drinking in the dark listening to the radio alone and i mean alone more then you can fathom alone to the 10th power alone and then you can tell us a story sport.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:17 PM   #31
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Unless tragedy strikes or you can't get a job, I really can't see why anyone in their 40's would do this full time unless they already have money. That would be a miserable existence.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:24 PM   #32
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

I'm 36. Left my desk job at 33 when I had kids to be stay at home dad during day and play poker at night (I don't sleep much). I'd definitely would rather be at my desk job than try to play online for profit. I don't know how you could possibly do that long term and not go nuts. I play live poker though and love it. Social aspect is usually fun and interesting. I get to raise my kids and make money in an job I enjoy.

You need to know yourself though and figure out if you can mentally take the swings and not start spewing. If you find yourself tilting off money during sessions then you're not ready for full time play. I've seen lots of good players become break-even players in the game because of mental problems. When you're just a weekend warrior you can take a week break to cool off. Being full time you gotta get back up the next day and play smart.

My last piece of advice would be to not go 100% poker and 0% career. Right now you've got your career and grind poker on the side. Try to swap the two. Figure out how to do some consulting on the side in your previous field. Or work part time. Or even figure out a way to do some volunteer work using your career skills. This way if you change your mind you don't have an employment gap on your resume and your skills stay sharp. Plus mentally you'll find it's good to take a break from poker. Personally I work very part time from home for the company that I left full-time to play poker. It's nice to still have that connection.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:59 PM   #33
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

When I thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail a few years ago I took a two week break when I got to the northern part of the trail and played poker for two weeks at Foxwoods. Prior to that I had played live at various casinos around the country just for a few days at a time. I did the Foxwoods thing to see if traveling and live poker were a viable option. A few things I noticed there an other places were:

1. Yes, traveling in an RV or campervan and playing live poker is possible.
2. Casinos tend to attract miserable people and degenerates, or bring out the misery in people.
3. Retired/Older people are usually much more enjoyable to play with at the table than younger people.
4. The young kids were rude, non-talkative (headphones, hoodies), and constantly verbally abusing people with EV comments, etc ... even the little old ladies.
5. The quality of play live is far worse than online.
6. The most enjoyable times (people talking) are in the evening and weekends. Daylight playing is pretty boring.
7. The senior citizens love playing early morning to mid afternoon.
8. Decent networking opportunities (work purposes) if you play at the right times, right places, and right games. Been offered a few jobs.
9. Definitely more bearable if you're an extrovert and like chatting with people.


If I was single and going to play live poker, the only way I would do it would be in an RV/Campervan roaming the country. Plenty of free camp spots, rewards programs help pay for food, casino comps, can move around to new areas, can still play online, lots of enjoyable outdoor things to do, cost of living drastically reduced, and plenty of online jobs you can do if need be. Basically enough options to offset the negative aspects of live grinding. Imagine getting frustrated at the Vegas tables and deciding to go to Zion National Park or the Grand Canyon for a few days ... that would definitely help clear the mind and reset.

Last edited by faxanadu; 12-02-2017 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:02 PM   #34
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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because i have played for a living online for many years and i do regret it. it was fun for a while, but in the long run it was not worth it. I still play until i finish my masters next semester, but it surely isn't fun anymore. I also don't see any future for poker, on the one hand game is solved and everyone is running bots on sites that are non-stars and then there is stars which aims to turn poker into an unbeatable casino game. Seems like this game is either turning into a raked chess or into a slot which both suck. Also one more thing that prolly doesn't apply to you: my old school buddies are all more successful than me at this point in time, yes i was a baller and better off than them for a few years, but now im just a bum next to them.
Sounds pretty similar to a lot of my feelings. I did poker for 10 years, from like 25-35. Quit a decent job in IT to do it. For a while it was cool, and I was making a lot more than many of my friends. Then black friday happened, poker became more stress/boredom/isolation than enjoyment, games got tougher, and I never broke through to the 'big times' and for various reasons was unable to save much of a fortune. Many of my friends are doing very well now, own homes, have good careers going that they are 10+ years into.

Meanwhile I went back to school, recently got a Master's, and am trying to kickstart a new career which will take years to build up. I am excited to have a real job though, stability, insurance, interaction and cooperation with others, and being part of something bigger than my bankroll. I wouldn't advise most people to do poker full-time, it can end up consuming years of your prime and leaving you with little but a job gap and lost time. Also do not underestimate the effects of variance and how hard it can be to manage and motivate yourself. If you're totally crushing it and making six figures+ a year and managing/saving your money well, it might be ok.

One last thing, now that I'm not paying the bills with it and having something else going on that's more important, poker has def become more fun and interesting again. I was SO burned out by grinding for years and years and NEEDING to win.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:08 PM   #35
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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How many people really have a job that they have fun with? It not being "fun anymore" is around the last reason to try to dissuade someone from attempting to be a pro poker player...assuming they have a reasonable back up plan.
yeah but even if you're not 'having fun' at your job, it's building skills and resume fodder and connections and demonstrable work products. Try selling your failed poker career to a potential employer.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:55 PM   #36
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

It’s sad reading these stories about people who couldn’t let go. Writing on the wall was very clear over 5 years ago
I have 2 friends in this category. One is not too bad off, he has a full time job but spends waaaay too much of his downtime grinding small stakes MTTs/working hard “trying to make it” (waste of time)
The other is heading for an early grave. Good live cash player who lets the casino misery affect him
and is now a full blown alcoholic + smoking /overweight / single.
People talk about the 9-5 with disdain but a job can easily be enjoyable. Never been a better time to start a business too

glgl


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Old 12-02-2017, 05:12 PM   #37
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

This thread is partly doing the job, but it feels like there should be a coaching hand book on how to survive, thrive and not do oneself any life damage as a live cash game grinder.

Small sample size ITT, but piecing together people's declared experiences, anecdotal information, and applying general reality common sense (e.g. playing hours are unsociable & it's a sedentary occupation), it feels like the issues being discussed are far more widespread that the poker community is either aware of or wishes to acknowledge.

Gl gl to anyone facing any of the issues. You can overcome them.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:26 PM   #38
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Actually a really sage point.

Is it possible there are more professional poker players doing themselves serious harm via life/future/career equity, relationships and health issues etc than there are “problem gamblers” harming themselves by losing at the poker tables


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Old 12-02-2017, 07:13 PM   #39
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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Actually a really sage point.

Is it possible there are more professional poker players doing themselves serious harm via life/future/career equity, relationships and health issues etc than there are “problem gamblers” harming themselves by losing at the poker tables


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That's a really perceptive point, that many of the people that we poker players generally perceive as the mark or a spot in a game are at least running a normal life the other 95% of the time when they are not playing poker, and that their deficiencies as people are far less damaging than ours given that we will sit in a chair in a basement or a room with no windows somewhere for 60 hours per week playing a game that has no real meaning to it and that potentially inflicts all kinds of life damage on ourselves.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:17 PM   #40
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

By the time you get to be 40+, you'll have a mountain of things you can regret if you choose to regret them. Literally every major choice you make is open to second guessing. So if you're wondering if the choices you're making in your mid-20s will lead to future happiness, they will, but really the only ones that have a high expectaton of future happiness are choices that will increase your emotional stability and flexibility. If you're able to do that, in 10 years you'll have a better chance of telling yourself you made the right choice, no matter which choice you actually made.

Anyone intrested in the idea of future happiness, I recommend Stumbling on Happiness by Dan Gilbert.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:00 PM   #41
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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The thing is, you can't dictate your working hours when you work for someone else.

Money is great, but time is better. I would gladly take less in earnings than I make now to have gain more freedom. I think this is a key separation for older people. Using my time in the way that I want is much more important to me than making boat loads of cash.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...r-obv-1167630/

read this thread before you decide. I'm 29. Been a pro for 3-4 years, and have spent the last 3 years traveling(lived in 20+ countries over that time) and playing online poker. I can say its been worth it, but barely. Variance is a ****in ***** and can make it very tough to enjoy the freedom and travel that is supposed to make it all worth it. Don't make this move lightly.
Disclaimer: on a 4 month PLO downer

Last edited by madmansam; 12-02-2017 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Poker is a great Part-time/2nd Job
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:06 PM   #42
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Do what makes you happy. Everyone reading this thread will be dead in 60 years. Literally nothing you do matters.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:11 PM   #43
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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Everyone reading this thread will be dead in 60 years.
Maybe if there's a nuclear war or obesity becomes mandatory..
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:11 PM   #44
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Writing on iPad so this will be short:

I think playing poker for a living is a bad idea. I did it for a few years and did pretty well. I'm now a math teacher and I'm remarkably happier. I feel like a totally different person-- I consider my poker days a mistake and a borderline tragic waste of time. We only get one lifetime and I spent a few years of mine in front of a computer trying to take money from other people.

I don't mean to be obnoxious about it, but if anyone reading this thread sees this and reconsiders grinding full-time, I'd be happy.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:33 PM   #45
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

While I'm inclined to think a lot of the advice in this thread is sound the choice is ultimately yours op and whether or not it is a good idea will depend on the type of person you are and your personal circumstances which I guess goes without saying.

People late thirties plus can still do it, even in today's climate, but it's not easy.

A lot of the pros or former pros advising against it, I would ask you this, even if the games were much easier back in the day, which I have no reason to doubt, if you were to pose this question then would the advice still not be to play part time/not go pro?

I think so.

It's a difficult voice for sure op, good luck no matter what you decide
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:38 PM   #46
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Only 34 now but been gambling professionally for over 10 years now and dont really see myself stopping anytime soon. Although I do have a degree with no work history dont really see how I could make enough money at a job to support my family at this point.
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:31 PM   #47
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

DGAF's monumental thread is highly relevant towards this age demographic. He crushes high stakes NLHE games in LA, but life is not by any means easy for him by doing so. I pity DGAF as he tells quite poignantly the despair that sets in at the insurmountable lifestyle that he has accrued because of poker.

Limon is an abrasive character in the poker world, but I agree with him wholeheartedly when he said that poker is a great hobby but the worst job. It's a great way to pick up an extra five figures (dollars), but an absolutely miserable way to make six.
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:51 PM   #48
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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While I'm inclined to think a lot of the advice in this thread is sound the choice is ultimately yours op and whether or not it is a good idea will depend on the type of person you are and your personal circumstances which I guess goes without saying.

People late thirties plus can still do it, even in today's climate, but it's not easy.

A lot of the pros or former pros advising against it, I would ask you this, even if the games were much easier back in the day, which I have no reason to doubt, if you were to pose this question then would the advice still not be to play part time/not go pro?

I think so.

It's a difficult voice for sure op, good luck no matter what you decide
Personally am not necessarily advising against it. I think I've enjoyed my life the last few years much much more than I would have if I was in a normal career. But I just think it's important to think it through. A lot of people think about the positives and not about the potential downsides. Or if they think about the downsides they lie to themselves and downplay it in their head.

If the poker economy wasn't in decline and there was still tons of easy games it would make more sense for more people to take the risk. If you can make 80-100k+ for the next chunk of years and you are smart about it and don't have too crazy of a lifestyle and save a lot you can set yourself up nicely for the future. This isn't really the case anymore though and it's only getting tougher. I also think your personality type matters, some people can't handle the relatively constant negativity that can come with being a professional poker player if you let it.

It's also super important to always have a back up plan. Back in the day lots of people were quitting college to become pros. Most probably regret it. Having a degree or some kind of in demand trade skill or something is important. You want to be adaptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerDoom View Post
DGAF's monumental thread is highly relevant towards this age demographic. He crushes high stakes NLHE games in LA, but life is not by any means easy for him by doing so. I pity DGAF as he tells quite poignantly the despair that sets in at the insurmountable lifestyle that he has accrued because of poker.

Limon is an abrasive character in the poker world, but I agree with him wholeheartedly when he said that poker is a great hobby but the worst job. It's a great way to pick up an extra five figures (dollars), but an absolutely miserable way to make six.
DGAF is a boss. That being said (and he readily admits this himself) he made his life infinitely harder by living too nice a lifestyle. His monthly nut is crazy high and that was bound to catch up with him eventually. If he'd lived a more modest lifestyle and maybe had a bit different personality (in terms of saving and finances) no doubt he would have been fine and prob saved up a nice amt of money.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:23 AM   #49
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerDoom View Post
DGAF's monumental thread is highly relevant towards this age demographic. He crushes high stakes NLHE games in LA, but life is not by any means easy for him by doing so. I pity DGAF as he tells quite poignantly the despair that sets in at the insurmountable lifestyle that he has accrued because of poker.

Limon is an abrasive character in the poker world, but I agree with him wholeheartedly when he said that poker is a great hobby but the worst job. It's a great way to pick up an extra five figures (dollars), but an absolutely miserable way to make six.
I agree with everything you said, but is there ever a non-miserable way to earn six figures?
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:39 AM   #50
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Re: Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?

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Originally Posted by TheTyman9 View Post
Personally am not necessarily advising against it. I think I've enjoyed my life the last few years much much more than I would have if I was in a normal career. But I just think it's important to think it through. A lot of people think about the positives and not about the potential downsides. Or if they think about the downsides they lie to themselves and downplay it in their head.

If the poker economy wasn't in decline and there was still tons of easy games it would make more sense for more people to take the risk. If you can make 80-100k+ for the next chunk of years and you are smart about it and don't have too crazy of a lifestyle and save a lot you can set yourself up nicely for the future. This isn't really the case anymore though and it's only getting tougher. I also think your personality type matters, some people can't handle the relatively constant negativity that can come with being a professional poker player if you let it.

It's also super important to always have a back up plan. Back in the day lots of people were quitting college to become pros. Most probably regret it. Having a degree or some kind of in demand trade skill or something is important. You want to be adaptable.



DGAF is a boss. That being said (and he readily admits this himself) he made his life infinitely harder by living too nice a lifestyle. His monthly nut is crazy high and that was bound to catch up with him eventually. If he'd lived a more modest lifestyle and maybe had a bit different personality (in terms of saving and finances) no doubt he would have been fine and prob saved up a nice amt of money.
Makes a lot if sense man. Thanks for your input. And thanks to whoever linked DGAF thread. Sick read of OP and last few posts there.

Also thanks to OP for making the thread. Been an interesting read so far, which is getting harder to find on these boards imo
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