Anyone in age 40+ (or late 30's) grinding for living?
01-03-2019
, 09:14 PM
01-04-2019
, 09:11 AM
01-06-2019
, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Great thread, great variety of experiences/opinions. I'm only 29 but I played pro full-time from 2008 to 2013, or 19 to 24. At the time my motivations were money and freedom, and to 19 year old me I had a ton of both. Looking back the freedom was the biggest positive. I was able to travel/live in 15+ different countries and have some pretty amazing life experiences very few people my age (even now) have ever had. As for money though, I work now full-time as a data scientist. The money from poker was good but people underestimate how much money you can make in other jobs if you're the type of person who can succeed at poker. I just finished my 4th full year at my 9-to-5 and including retirement contributions+benefits I'm going to clear 150k. If I had skipped the poker and finished school+got a job right out of school I'd almost definitely be in the 200-250k range. This is right around where other people I went to high school with are that went into a similar field. Now I'm not saying that's easy to do, but I think most people good enough to come close to 6 figures in poker in 2018 could do it.
In addition, the work is far less stressful. Don't get me wrong, stress and variance still exists (lol at a real job having no variance), but it's naturally a lot lower with less built in randomness and working for someone else has the benefit of them eating some of the remaining variance. And people talk about all the freedom poker gives you, but for everyone in this thread who used their poker winnings to travel and go on trips there are another 100 poker pros who didn't leave their hometown or who "traveled" but never left the casino of whatever city the poker tournament they went to was. And you can also travel with a 9-to-5. I now get 25 vacation days per year (in addition to the company-wide 10 holidays) and can work remotely as long as it's not a regular occurrence. I generally do 1-2 international trips per year, which isn't as much as I traveled playing poker but I also don't have to "work" during my trips at all.
Anyway there's obviously downsides to a 9-to-5 as well. In poker I loved nothing better than someone being an arrogant idiot and being like "well now I get to take your money". In a corporate environment, oftentimes that arrogant idiot is a VP making millions per year who you need to impress in order for your career to advance, and oftentimes that VP will then use your work in order to advance their own career. And I certainly don't mean to downplay the positives of poker. I made so many friends and so many memories that will last a lifetime. I learned things about myself and life that I never would have being coddled in college. I'm so glad I made the choice I did to drop out and play poker, and similarly glad I was able to finish my degree and get a real job afterwards. I saw my share of people who crashed and burned and resorted to scamming and/or coaching (but I repeat myself
) and/or moving back in with their parents in their 30s when the money ran out. And everyone talking about the downsides of poker have been spot-on. It's a lonely game, variance is a *****, and although you may still enjoy it, definitely don't count on your current passion continuing a few years after you've been doing it full-time. You will run worse than you ever imagined you could, you will begin to question whether you're even a winning player anymore, you will begin to dread playing, and you will begin to play worse as a result of this, which leads to it being even more likely that the downswing continues.
Also finally if you have a 9-to-5 and think of yourself as "working for someone else", you're doing it wrong. Just as in poker you are working for yourself, and you are selling your services to other people. Improving your skills equates to you either getting a raise at your current job or being able to find another job that pays more, because you have something they value. Depending on career you could look into being a contractor/freelancer as well. Look at yourself as a 1-person business. If you're working a 9-to-5, that's only because the most profitable way to sell your services is to agree to provide 40 hours/week of your labor in exchange for a paycheck. Especially as you get better at your craft, you'll find more and more "customers" who are willing to be more flexible whether it's alternative work location/hours, fewer hours per week, more freedom to choose your own projects, etc.
In addition, the work is far less stressful. Don't get me wrong, stress and variance still exists (lol at a real job having no variance), but it's naturally a lot lower with less built in randomness and working for someone else has the benefit of them eating some of the remaining variance. And people talk about all the freedom poker gives you, but for everyone in this thread who used their poker winnings to travel and go on trips there are another 100 poker pros who didn't leave their hometown or who "traveled" but never left the casino of whatever city the poker tournament they went to was. And you can also travel with a 9-to-5. I now get 25 vacation days per year (in addition to the company-wide 10 holidays) and can work remotely as long as it's not a regular occurrence. I generally do 1-2 international trips per year, which isn't as much as I traveled playing poker but I also don't have to "work" during my trips at all.
Anyway there's obviously downsides to a 9-to-5 as well. In poker I loved nothing better than someone being an arrogant idiot and being like "well now I get to take your money". In a corporate environment, oftentimes that arrogant idiot is a VP making millions per year who you need to impress in order for your career to advance, and oftentimes that VP will then use your work in order to advance their own career. And I certainly don't mean to downplay the positives of poker. I made so many friends and so many memories that will last a lifetime. I learned things about myself and life that I never would have being coddled in college. I'm so glad I made the choice I did to drop out and play poker, and similarly glad I was able to finish my degree and get a real job afterwards. I saw my share of people who crashed and burned and resorted to scamming and/or coaching (but I repeat myself
) and/or moving back in with their parents in their 30s when the money ran out. And everyone talking about the downsides of poker have been spot-on. It's a lonely game, variance is a *****, and although you may still enjoy it, definitely don't count on your current passion continuing a few years after you've been doing it full-time. You will run worse than you ever imagined you could, you will begin to question whether you're even a winning player anymore, you will begin to dread playing, and you will begin to play worse as a result of this, which leads to it being even more likely that the downswing continues.Also finally if you have a 9-to-5 and think of yourself as "working for someone else", you're doing it wrong. Just as in poker you are working for yourself, and you are selling your services to other people. Improving your skills equates to you either getting a raise at your current job or being able to find another job that pays more, because you have something they value. Depending on career you could look into being a contractor/freelancer as well. Look at yourself as a 1-person business. If you're working a 9-to-5, that's only because the most profitable way to sell your services is to agree to provide 40 hours/week of your labor in exchange for a paycheck. Especially as you get better at your craft, you'll find more and more "customers" who are willing to be more flexible whether it's alternative work location/hours, fewer hours per week, more freedom to choose your own projects, etc.
01-09-2019
, 02:23 AM
Quote:
Great thread, great variety of experiences/opinions. I'm only 29 but I played pro full-time from 2008 to 2013, or 19 to 24. At the time my motivations were money and freedom, and to 19 year old me I had a ton of both. Looking back the freedom was the biggest positive. I was able to travel/live in 15+ different countries and have some pretty amazing life experiences very few people my age (even now) have ever had. As for money though, I work now full-time as a data scientist. The money from poker was good but people underestimate how much money you can make in other jobs if you're the type of person who can succeed at poker. I just finished my 4th full year at my 9-to-5 and including retirement contributions+benefits I'm going to clear 150k. If I had skipped the poker and finished school+got a job right out of school I'd almost definitely be in the 200-250k range. This is right around where other people I went to high school with are that went into a similar field. Now I'm not saying that's easy to do, but I think most people good enough to come close to 6 figures in poker in 2018 could do it.
In addition, the work is far less stressful. Don't get me wrong, stress and variance still exists (lol at a real job having no variance), but it's naturally a lot lower with less built in randomness and working for someone else has the benefit of them eating some of the remaining variance. And people talk about all the freedom poker gives you, but for everyone in this thread who used their poker winnings to travel and go on trips there are another 100 poker pros who didn't leave their hometown or who "traveled" but never left the casino of whatever city the poker tournament they went to was. And you can also travel with a 9-to-5. I now get 25 vacation days per year (in addition to the company-wide 10 holidays) and can work remotely as long as it's not a regular occurrence. I generally do 1-2 international trips per year, which isn't as much as I traveled playing poker but I also don't have to "work" during my trips at all.
Anyway there's obviously downsides to a 9-to-5 as well. In poker I loved nothing better than someone being an arrogant idiot and being like "well now I get to take your money". In a corporate environment, oftentimes that arrogant idiot is a VP making millions per year who you need to impress in order for your career to advance, and oftentimes that VP will then use your work in order to advance their own career. And I certainly don't mean to downplay the positives of poker. I made so many friends and so many memories that will last a lifetime. I learned things about myself and life that I never would have being coddled in college. I'm so glad I made the choice I did to drop out and play poker, and similarly glad I was able to finish my degree and get a real job afterwards. I saw my share of people who crashed and burned and resorted to scamming and/or coaching (but I repeat myself) and/or moving back in with their parents in their 30s when the money ran out. And everyone talking about the downsides of poker have been spot-on. It's a lonely game, variance is a *****, and although you may still enjoy it, definitely don't count on your current passion continuing a few years after you've been doing it full-time. You will run worse than you ever imagined you could, you will begin to question whether you're even a winning player anymore, you will begin to dread playing, and you will begin to play worse as a result of this, which leads to it being even more likely that the downswing continues.
Also finally if you have a 9-to-5 and think of yourself as "working for someone else", you're doing it wrong. Just as in poker you are working for yourself, and you are selling your services to other people. Improving your skills equates to you either getting a raise at your current job or being able to find another job that pays more, because you have something they value. Depending on career you could look into being a contractor/freelancer as well. Look at yourself as a 1-person business. If you're working a 9-to-5, that's only because the most profitable way to sell your services is to agree to provide 40 hours/week of your labor in exchange for a paycheck. Especially as you get better at your craft, you'll find more and more "customers" who are willing to be more flexible whether it's alternative work location/hours, fewer hours per week, more freedom to choose your own projects, etc.
In addition, the work is far less stressful. Don't get me wrong, stress and variance still exists (lol at a real job having no variance), but it's naturally a lot lower with less built in randomness and working for someone else has the benefit of them eating some of the remaining variance. And people talk about all the freedom poker gives you, but for everyone in this thread who used their poker winnings to travel and go on trips there are another 100 poker pros who didn't leave their hometown or who "traveled" but never left the casino of whatever city the poker tournament they went to was. And you can also travel with a 9-to-5. I now get 25 vacation days per year (in addition to the company-wide 10 holidays) and can work remotely as long as it's not a regular occurrence. I generally do 1-2 international trips per year, which isn't as much as I traveled playing poker but I also don't have to "work" during my trips at all.
Anyway there's obviously downsides to a 9-to-5 as well. In poker I loved nothing better than someone being an arrogant idiot and being like "well now I get to take your money". In a corporate environment, oftentimes that arrogant idiot is a VP making millions per year who you need to impress in order for your career to advance, and oftentimes that VP will then use your work in order to advance their own career. And I certainly don't mean to downplay the positives of poker. I made so many friends and so many memories that will last a lifetime. I learned things about myself and life that I never would have being coddled in college. I'm so glad I made the choice I did to drop out and play poker, and similarly glad I was able to finish my degree and get a real job afterwards. I saw my share of people who crashed and burned and resorted to scamming and/or coaching (but I repeat myself
) and/or moving back in with their parents in their 30s when the money ran out. And everyone talking about the downsides of poker have been spot-on. It's a lonely game, variance is a *****, and although you may still enjoy it, definitely don't count on your current passion continuing a few years after you've been doing it full-time. You will run worse than you ever imagined you could, you will begin to question whether you're even a winning player anymore, you will begin to dread playing, and you will begin to play worse as a result of this, which leads to it being even more likely that the downswing continues.Also finally if you have a 9-to-5 and think of yourself as "working for someone else", you're doing it wrong. Just as in poker you are working for yourself, and you are selling your services to other people. Improving your skills equates to you either getting a raise at your current job or being able to find another job that pays more, because you have something they value. Depending on career you could look into being a contractor/freelancer as well. Look at yourself as a 1-person business. If you're working a 9-to-5, that's only because the most profitable way to sell your services is to agree to provide 40 hours/week of your labor in exchange for a paycheck. Especially as you get better at your craft, you'll find more and more "customers" who are willing to be more flexible whether it's alternative work location/hours, fewer hours per week, more freedom to choose your own projects, etc.
The stress of having to win weighs heavy. 1 break even or losing year, and you're wondering why am I wasting my time sitting here? Significantly less fun treating it as a job.
Sure is sweet to win money doing it though, something about it.