I read about 1/3 of the posts in the thread. I can see value for those who like setting their own schedule, but it honestly seems like such a miserable existence if you grind small stakes for a living making just enough to get by.

You don't create anything valuable for society. I think it would be so depressing grinding day in and day out. The same bums at the table. I could see it as a source to supplement income. Playing +10 - 15 hours a week and it would still be fun. If you are a real estate agent or have some other job that is not super busy at times.

If you're considering either path, try Ben Franklin's Pro/Con list to see where your intentions fall:

"My way is to divide half a sheet of paper by a line into two columns; writing over the one Pro and over the other Con. Then during three or four days’ consideration, I put down under the different heads short hints of the different motives, that at different time occur to me, for or against the measure. When I have thus got them altogether in one view, I endeavor to estimate their respective weights; and where I find two, one on each side, that seem equal, I strike them both out. If I judge some two reasons con equal to some three reasons pro, I strike out five; and thus proceeding, I find where the balance lies; and if after a day or two of further consideration, nothing new that is of importance occurs on either side, I come to a determination accordingly.” –Benjamin Franklin

There's so many variables and sacrifices to consider for either path. For some, going pro is +EV for their life. For others it's +EV to work a 9-5.

I think poker is one of those things that you could justify on paper, but the application of it is entirely different.

Just an example, but literally every single poker player believes they wont be the guy that runs 100+ buy ins below EV... until it happens to them... or they believe that they have the mental fortitude to withstand the crushing variance for long periods of time... until it happens and they mentally crack.

I can't even count the number of really solid tags i've played against, who, upon losing idk 20ish buy ins they absolutely lose their ****/ go on tilt/ light it all on fire. And I assume they all considered themselves to be professional poker players up until the point where they were actually tested.

not that many people doing it because it's not easy to do. It all comes down to what Kenny Rogers said, "u gotta know when to holdem and know when to fold em." Kenny comes off a little too passive for my liking though, he should have mentioned something about bet sizing

good thread.

i think the pro side is pretty obvious. be your own boss. set your own hours. leave the "rat race" of being under others' thumbs (that is a big benefit)

the con side is probably not that well thought out... unless you are a huge people lover then i'm not sure sitting at a cramped poker table in a casino for many hours each week is that enjoyable

probably the key question is how achievable this is playing online.. and it seems like 1) rake has gone way up; 2) every jurisdiction has different circumstances as per being able to make alot of $$$$ online poker.

obviously whether you can make more than subsistence income is probably the first thing to really analyze deeply.

So what?

My twenties was all about becoming a doctor and I accomplished that goal but I was clinically depressed.

What is more noble and valuable to society than a doctor?

I should do it to contribute to society.

No. You should try to be happy because life expectancy can change at the drop of a hat.

Poker made me happy and my thirties were the best time of my life. Would make some docs envious. It's about lifestyle; not money.

But the money helps.

I'll play till I'm dead cause it is so much fun.

I'm ridiculously into Python these days in case anyone is wondering what my 2nd stream of income might turn into.

Always, Always play online poker for income since you took so long to develop that talent and it is still today profitable.

And try not to take yourself so seriously with all this 'contributing to society' and all the negative nancies in this thread.

Don't tell me poker is not fun.

I’m not sure real estate agents create much of value for society so that may not be the best example.

a lot of the downsides of poker most people are talking about are also downsides of owning your own business/sales jobs that are mostly commission/etc. the main issue is when you have people not getting their degree or developing any marketable skills and just focusing solely on poker. and then down the line that resume gap is more hurtful to their options.

So you're a doctor who chose to play poker instead? Wow if true. Not wow as in its a stupid or smart decision, just as in surprising.

I will try to summarize my experience as best I can without writing a book. I played mostly online pre-black Friday, tried to make live poker work after BF however I think the combination of ego and self pitty forced me to go other routes.

I went back to the business world and at first loved it, it is where I came up. However it became very depressing when I could not escape, I had numerous people to answer to (and I owned the business) was forced to talk and meet people when they would show up at my office, 10+ years of poker had made me far more introverted than I was already and I just could not stand it anymore. I cannot describe, in anyway that should make sense to most people, how difficult it was to "have to" answer the phone and deal with people or solve problems. or be at the office at a certain time. And while at the office it was a struggle everyday not to lock my door and place the phone on silent.

I cannot exist in that life anymore, and I returned to poker after 2.5 years away from it. It's now been 3 months that I am playing full time. Live poker is not easy, and I do disagree that it requires being an extrovert, because I am clearly not. I can chat, make jokes and generally get along with people at a table, or I can put on my head phones and not be expected to socialize at all. I feel more control of myself and my surroundings.

Like many have pointed out, you have to value being on your own, and maybe have a disdain for having to answer to others.

I started full-time grind in my late 30s, and I am still grinding 10+ years later. So I guess I manage to do what you are asking as I started in micro stakes and got to MSNL+

I doubt anyone really knows how most pros end their careers.

Way too many variables to answer your last question, but for me I hope to still be playing for many more years.

I played poker full time from 18-22, and then used that money to start a business. I sold out at 28 and played poker again full time from 28-30 before going back into the work force.
In my opinion, the live scene had changed but not drastically.

Feel free to ask away as to why I didn’t just keep playing live as a pro, and I’m ready for the “because you suck at poker”. Lol


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Here's some perspective from my 50 years on this planet:

Started with nothing; public housing; public grants to get to university; no help from my parents; living in poverty to get through university (I remember sometimes not being able to afford to eat for three days).

Somehow I made it through and got on the bottom of the ladder of a good corporate career at 21. I made good progress, got promoted, got pay raises, and found myself making close to $200k a year at 39.

Then it all came crashing down. I made some mistakes, but also got f***** over by my corporation, leaving my reputation in tatters. It felt like my life was over. I'd saved nothing, had some debts, and was basically broke and unemployed with the exception of one thing.

It was 2006 and I'd discovered online poker in 2005. I'd been making some money playing evenings / weekends. I took it more seriously and turned pro in January 2007. I made $100k tax free that year and the same again in 2008. It enabled me to pay off my debts and live an easy life.

Then that came crashing down too. In 2009 I hit a terrible downswing that wiped out my bankroll. But I also caught a break: a head-hunter offered me a chance to get back to my old career. I couldn't believe it at first, but I found my feet again.

It was only $100k a year before taxes to start, but I soon impressed and moved-up the pay scale. After a few years I was back to making $200k a year again. In the past couple of years I've moved into freelance consulting and make $250k+.

This has also enabled me to rekindle my love for poker. I no longer play online, as that's no fun any more, but I can play live MTTs and cash games for a total of 2-3 months a year along with my consulting, and those have made me five figures a year extra income.

I think this work / poker balance is the best for me, but perhaps I'll evolve to more poker and less consulting as I get older.

Meanwhile I made some investments / savings and have $500k for a rainy day (or hopefully for my retirement).

I don't ever see myself doing poker full-time, but moving up to 50% of the year seems a reasonable way to make it fun and profitable.

Not a typical story, but there's many ways you can get to 50 and be happy playing poker, while having some ups and downs along the way.

5 star post

u were making close to $200k at 39 but when it came crashing down because of "some mistakes" and "you got ****ed over by your corporation," u had no money saved and had some debts? Seems to me you should have had a lot saved

Expenses and lifestyle can trump any salary or bankroll.

true dat

You're right and if I had it over again, I'd definitely would have, but I had some serious lifestyle leaks, thinking the good times would never end.

I've learned somewhat from that experience, although I did recently blow $15k on Caribbean Poker Party in Punta Cana (although had I ran slightly better, it could have been a profitable trip!)

I’m 33 and been grinding full time since 2008 including multiple years of SNE. Plus years grinding live before that and this post really hit home with me enough to make an account and post for the 1st time. You should really look into meditation and mindfulness. It will change your life and outlook and alleviate the majority of these problems you stated believe it or not. I used to feel the same as you about a lot of things and it has essentially eliminated the word “hate” from my vocabulary. Not to mention if you play poker you really are selling yourself short if you aren’t training the mind.

As someone that is in their mid 40's, you are making the correct decision.

The biggest winner in my local games is a woman in her 40s making roughly 2x the median income for our county in the game. She's been successful in multiple business ventures as well so she's very sharp. She also absolutely loves poker and the social side of the game.

This is one of the best threads in NVG for a while.

I am 36 and have played poker as a hobby for many years. I'm a (small) loser at low stakes online but remain a winner in low stakes live and live MTT's. Back in college (early 00's) I was a winning player at mid stakes online and considered doing poker as a career. I never really made a decision, as before I knew what I was doing, I landed a good first job in finance.

I've been very lucky in my finance/commercial career and will have made enough money to comfortably retire in a year or so. I plan to take this opportunity to focus on poker and see what I can achieve in it (mainly MTT's) as it's something I've always wanted to do. The alternative is to continue my job and earn more and more money that I don't really need and won't make me any happier. There are also a few other things I'm keen to do with my life that can exist alongside poker.

I look back at the crossroads after college and feel like I 'dodged a bullet' with regards a poker career. Some of my friends didn't and have similar stories to those in this thread (most recognising that it probably hurt their long term earning EV)

Not really sure what the point of this post is. I guess to share my experience and find out if anyone else has taken such a choice to leave a traditional career (as they no longer need the money), to do the poker career ('itch'?) that they always wanted to to try. Or if anyone thinks I'm crazy to give up my job in general.

Interesting story, thanks.

Can I ask, do you have or did you have a wife (and/or kids)? If so, how did that play into the above?

t0....

36 and able to retire ! I trust and hope since you are in finance that you understand what it takes to retire with a 50 to 60 year span to cover with the nest egg you have built up.

Well done. I am 58 and planning to retire in 2 years and will be playing the pokersszzzzzz...... for fun and entertainment.... I have made the $$ and will be able to play cards for fun and enjoyment - as I love to gamboool....

At age 36 for me it was ram and jam and figuring I would work till the die day I died - that still could be case as 2 year to go....

Well done t0 - if you really have the $$ - then enjoy life pawdnaaahhhh..... after 40 hard years in the oil patch - i can say that if you are able to do what you have said young man - all the best sir !