heh, makes it sound like a bargain. Before replying I checked a 6-max 500K/1million PLO game for a 10 hands or so. Min rake was 500K and max I saw was 1.4M. What's that come out to?

they need to get the same lawyers club WPT have

You won up from your first free play money, right? Also, Stars is bending over backwards to make sure the PM chips have zero value to redeem. Thus, by either measure the rake costs zilch.

The fact that nobody ITT has commented on you being old due to being a 7CS specialist is amazing. You're going to be the new Allen Keesler of Play Money Stud. If it were running on Paradise, you be demanding comps for your strawberries and drinks on the side table.

Not an online player at all so ignore if a stupid question, or has already been covered.

Wasn't there a guy here who years ago posted a thread about selling play money to people for like $600 real cash a month?

Please, not Chainsaw! I do miss those Paradise side table orders, tho. Isn't 1.4M in rake just under $2? The chips have a real value to Stars esp if they have a bunch of PLO players that want to play the biggest games for 'prestige.'

This.

In fact, the chips have value "in-game" to our customers, which is what they're paying for. The service we are offering here is no different than a miniature golf course or a bowling alley. You pay a fee to play on our "course" (lanes, whatever) and then you go home (or log off) and say, "Wow, that was fun - I had a good time." You have fewer dollars in your pocket, but presumably you felt that the entertainment was worth those dollars.

The only difference is that the miniature golf course and bowling alley don't offer an opportunity for you to participate for free, and then give you the option of paying for cooler features (e.g. black-lit bowling lanes or exceptional water features in the miniature golf).

As others have pointed out (and I have learned first-hand) the games get "better" at higher stakes. The players have invested time and/or money to build those bankrolls and they're not interested in just flipping for them. So it's not just a question of paying for the "prestige" of playing in the bigger games - you actually get a better poker game. Some of our customers are willing to pay real money to get a good poker game, even one that doesn't produce real world monetary gain. I call that great fun and great entertainment - I'm proud to work for the company that provides it.

Regards, Lee

IMO this is just a big marketing ploy to bring/keep Americans online pending the day that Poker Stars gets licensed in the US. Mark my words, if and when Poker Stars gets licensed in the US they will offer to cash in play money chips for Americans.

In the meantime the whole model sucks and we're all just being fobbed off with excuses about protecting the play money ecology.

^ Considered your words marked. There is zero chance that US players will be cashing their play chips.

And only one of them has the slightest chance of being resold. The resale value of your Stars chips goes to zero the moment you buy them. Bitcoin has been sagging lately, but not that bad.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bits...gCzm1g10zm2g25

At Seals you can get a 100bb buy-in for the unraked game for about one dollar (or you can have a buy-in for the 0.02/0.04 chip raked games, with unlimited tables, for about $2).

Why wouldn't they "offer" to allow Americans to make cash deposits on the real money part of the site instead?

Lee Jones statement is spot on.

As someone who plays the highest levels. It is close to a real cash game experience because the quality of play is good. Being someone who has grinded up the stakes and can do it quite quickly from scratch. I have no problem with people buying their way to the top.

I think it's good for the growth of poker. Because playing at the beginner levels can drive you insane and turn off potential players.

And the people who buy to the top seem to be smarter which makes the games more fun for players like me who enjoy the mental challenge.

I've also had the opportunity to play with pros who have sat in and learned a great deal from their game. Vanessa Selbst actually sat in a game with me for something like 3.5hrs. It was a great experience that PokerStars provided that cost me nothing and will be a memory I carry for a long time. She even told one player the level of some players were better then some high stakes players.

Lastly, I think it's great for the growth of poker and look forward to the day when online poker is fully back in the US. I think a second poker boom can happen and Stars selling play chips will help that boom. Now only if PokerStars would start sponsoring play chips players like me.

That seems to be a contradiction in terms.

Atleast you can pretend to be a HS crusher

Since when did the bowling alley and the miniature golf course need responsible gaming teams?

Ever since the time of Jesus imo.

That creep can roll man.

[/QUOTE]Vanessa Selbst actually sat in a game with me for something like 3.5hrs[QUOTE]

.

LOL. She's just promoting the site she's paid to promote. Her deal might require her to spend a certain amount of time per month playing on the site (or at least incentives for her to log a certain amount of hours) so she was getting her hours in via play money as to not risk any real money. Telling you the level of play in play money is better than real money is just a ploy to get you to deposit and play high stakes.

I don't understand why anyone would play play money games. If you're in the US, play on one of the sites that allows US players to play. If you are really dieing to play on Tilt or Stars, go somewhere you can play. You can also just go play live at a casino/home game. If you are new to poker and just want to learn the game, play money is an acceptable option, but "high stakes play money" is really a joke.

Paying for play money poker is like buying lottery tickets except you have no chance of winning anything. You'd get the "enjoyment" of scratching off lottery tickets but it wouldn't make much sense.

Despite my earlier jokes, I'm actually with the play money fans on this. When we have guests over, we often play games like Settlers, Ludo (i.e. Parcheesi), or have a poker SNG game with no money at stake and its a lot of fun - and relatively competitive because as the others know I play more seriously they want to beat me and of course I don't want to get beat myself. Money should make the game better as a guarantee that the other players are taking it seriously but it isn't an absolute guarantee and the absence of it doesn't guarantee that the reverse is true.
If the play money poker system is managed in such a way that the top table big game is people who are the best in that ecology and who value their chips then there is probably a good, hard fought game. Actually the same logic applies at microstakes - the stakes are very small for the time you put in playing but it is competitive and therefore enjoyable.

I would imagine Selbst was physically in the US when she came on the play money site. I am a bit sceptical about the claim that high stakes play money PLO > high stake real money PLO, but I can believe there is a lot of overlap for the primarily American game, Razz. The bottom level of real money Razz with the US players shut out is so bad that you are plus EV if you have read a starting hands chart. I played a bit of play money Razz (it bothered me that my play money balance was below the starting amount, so I was a lifetime play money loser and I wanted to grind it up to at least get level) and I found that the bottom level of Razz with US players was probably harder - in the case of Razz fans it's probably a factor that they (I would assume) can't get good games on the real money sites in the US so if they want a game online at all it is play money. In the end I just played the NLHE HUSNGs 100PM and got level pretty quickly.

As I live outside the UK I will set up a home game on stars for my family - it can be a 1+0.10 PM tournament (we don't gamble within the family), so effectively this is a free service provided by stars. One of the members of my family plays SNGs on 888 - maybe he will start playing real money on Stars later, so it is good business for them to offer this.

I'm well aware she was promoting the site. She wasn't softplaying at all. I do have real cash experience but I'm certainly not a professional player. Could I be? Yes but at this time it's not in the cards. I believe i could be a favorite in any 6 max game in the world if properly rolled and some experience in the game. Maybe in the future I will have the opportunity to see if i can live up to that statement.

If this guy is good enough to tangle with Skraper and Benjamin Barker and the other mid to high stakes American regs, and he is wasting his talents in the play money games that is such a unbelievable waste of talent.....so so stupid. That would not be a complement imo.

edit: i see you were talking specifically about raze so sorry if i took your comments out of context.

Can Stars legally sell play money chips to players in the USA? Is this not a legal grey area?

am i in before three fiddy?

Why don't you guy's lower the rake and quit being so greedy. Im talking about real poker not play money.