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Old 03-04-2013, 09:46 PM   #1
*TT*
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American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

The AGA submitted this brief with the State of New Jersey's Casino Control Commission in opposition of PokerStars receiving interim casino authorization. The AGA's membership includes the majority of major casino companies as well as most casino industry game providers - many of which intend to provide online gaming software (including online poker) to the NV and NJ market. You may also know the AGA from the AGA Online Poker Headquarters.

Download the PDF for the brief here (link expires March 11th): https://www.yousendit.com/download/U...YXliV3kwYjhUQw

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Old 03-04-2013, 09:56 PM   #2
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

If nescessary, Stars will fight this in court and will not lose.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:59 PM   #3
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

duh?

Why do you think we've had to go through all the internet gambling is evil, black friday, bull**** for the last 7 years?
U.S. companies wanted the U.S. market, and had to get rid of the competition first. Not going to let them sneak in now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:01 PM   #4
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Quote:
Whelan, the state senator, said PokerStars represents competition to Caesars Entertainment — which through Bally’s, Caesars, Harrah’s Resort and Showboat Casino Hotel operates a third of the casinos in the city.

Caesars had attempted to lobby to bar PokerStars from recently enacted legislation authorizing Internet gambling in New Jersey, said Whelan, who participated in a conference call with PokerStars and helped to remove that language from the bill prior to the legislature’s approval. Lawmakers decided to insert language that allowed PokerStars to apply for a license but left the decision on whether it should be granted to New Jersey regulators.

Caesars spokespeople could not be reached for comment.

Whelan as well as other lawmakers have said PokerStars’ decision to buy the Atlantic Club may have depended on passage of the Internet gambling bill. The senator said he believed the opposition brief from the gaming association was another attempt by Caesars to derail the competition.

“I’m fed up with these guys and their ‘holier than thou crap,’” he said.
American Gaming Association opposes PokerStars' purchase of Atlantic Club
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:07 PM   #5
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

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Originally Posted by NhlNut View Post
duh?

Why do you think we've had to go through all the internet gambling is evil, black friday, bull**** for the last 7 years?
U.S. companies wanted the U.S. market, and had to get rid of the competition first. Not going to let them sneak in now.
not wanting to let stars "sneak in" is not legal grounds to bar stars from NJ in case you didn't know......and let's not forgot, in it's settlelment with the DOJ, stars did not not have to admit any wrongdoing...that's the beauty of it all.

/
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #6
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Wanna beat Stars? Make a better ****ing product.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:30 PM   #7
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

sigh basically a money grabbing wh*** move
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:37 PM   #8
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

This should have no effect on what regulators decide, rather this should be seen as the beginning of Caesars' ad campaign. If PS does get approved, I'd expect an epic Gary Loveman commercial.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #9
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

It's in the hands of the regulators, that is why there are regulators. We all clamored for regulation, now there is regulation. This is Pokerstars fight, not ours. We have other battlefields to conquer just for the right to play.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:59 PM   #10
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Very stupid move by PokerStars if the allegation in footnote 47 actually happened:




Link to PokerStars October 2012 player meeting report

Last edited by sba9630; 03-04-2013 at 11:04 PM. Reason: add link to 2p2 thread
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:09 PM   #11
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by demoneyez View Post
not wanting to let stars "sneak in" is not legal grounds to bar stars from NJ in case you didn't know......and let's not forgot, in it's settlelment with the DOJ, stars did not not have to admit any wrongdoing...that's the beauty of it all.

/
Of course.
My response was to the suit itself, not your post.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:50 PM   #12
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

This just in from PokerStars spokesman Eric Hollreiser:

These are matters for expert regulators to determine, not self-interested partisans picking a public fight.

The U.S. Department of Justice has said PokerStars is suitable to apply for a license in the U.S. and saw fit to give us the assets of our largest competitor and entrust us to compensate their customers outside of the U.S.

We will continue to work with authorities including the NJ regulators and other interested state regulators to discuss our qualifications and allow them to comment on what they find.

PokerStars is one of the largest and most respected internet gaming companies because we work closely with regulators and are in good standing with governments around the world, holding licenses in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Estonia, Belgium, Malta and Isle of Man. We will continue to work positively with regulators in New Jersey and elsewhere whenever they review our qualifications.


h/t to expert reporter John Brennan of NorthJersey.com, his regular column provides the most in-depth coverage of iGaming industry issues in New Jersey.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:57 PM   #13
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

On a related note.... AGA member Goldman Sacks just paid $550 million as a settlement because they misled investors in a subprime mortgage product as the housing market collapsed. John Paulson, who is one of the principal owner/investors in Caesars, is tied to this scandal. PokerStars also paid a settlement, both companies broke the law... whats the difference?

There is an old saying, don't throw rocks at glass houses....

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/bu...dman.html?_r=0
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:52 AM   #14
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Slimy, dirty and purely self interest bull****.

Then again, hardly surprising.

I hope we see FairPlay return to the forums, I have a few... uhh... questions to raise.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:18 AM   #15
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT* View Post
On a related note.... AGA member Goldman Sacks just paid $550 million as a settlement because they misled investors in a subprime mortgage product as the housing market collapsed. John Paulson, who is one of the principal owner/investors in Caesars, is tied to this scandal. PokerStars also paid a settlement, both companies broke the law... whats the difference?

There is an old saying, don't throw rocks at glass houses....

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/16/bu...dman.html?_r=0
John Paulson is one of the biggest pieces of **** this nation has. He was one of the people that was selling mortgage securities making millions, while at the same time betting against them, which made him even more money when everyone realized these securities were crap and the market crashed.

He is also the one that wrote a huge opinion article about how Caesars' market cap could potentially 20-40x if the economy turned. Of course, he didn't mention that he was one of the major share holders of Caesars, and that he wrote that article to try and dump his shares at a higher price.

I'd really like to see PS do some digging into him to show why Caesars shouldn't get a license.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:25 AM   #16
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

You guys are not going to like my next OP/ED...

FWIW, I think if you take a step back and see this from any other perspective besides a poker player's you will see how the AGA has some good points, ones I have also been making since this whole AC/PS acquisition became public.

I figured this battle would come. I wish PokerStars all the best and I have complete respect for their organization but there is a decent chance they will have to sit on the sidelines at first, exactly where WSOP, MGM and the others had to sit while PS raked it in.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:08 AM   #17
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

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Originally Posted by LastLife View Post
John Paulson is one of the biggest pieces of **** this nation has. He was one of the people that was selling mortgage securities making millions, while at the same time betting against them, which made him even more money when everyone realized these securities were crap and the market crashed.

He is also the one that wrote a huge opinion article about how Caesars' market cap could potentially 20-40x if the economy turned. Of course, he didn't mention that he was one of the major share holders of Caesars, and that he wrote that article to try and dump his shares at a higher price.

I'd really like to see PS do some digging into him to show why Caesars shouldn't get a license.
wrong guy, Paulson is a hedgefund mgr, bet huge against the subprime market and made billions...and so did his clients.

you are describing Blankfein, ceo of goldman who testified with fuld, dimon, etc. about making 100s $millions in fees selling subprime CDOs/securities(see Timberwolf) to their clients while misrepresenting their almost worthless value and taking a short position themselves making more $billions.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:28 AM   #18
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Paulson was one of the very few people who didn't drink the koolaid and recognized the housing bubble for what it was. Risked everything and eventually binked it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:04 AM   #19
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Sorry, ranted without checking. I get all those douche bags mixed up.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:41 AM   #20
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

Sheldon Adelson & Las Vegas Sands (Venetian) is under investigation by the SEC, DOJ, and FBI for violating federal labor laws; and just this past week admitted in a regulatory filing that the company "likely" violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which makes it illegal to bribe foreign officials. Las Vegas Sands is of course another member of the AGA. Would the AGA file a brief in Nevada to argue that Las Vegas Sands is not suitable to be licensed? Doubtful.

Some in NJ Government have made the claim that Caesars is behind this, that they are using the AGA to push their own protectionist agenda. NJ State Senator Wheelan said that he believed the opposition brief from the gaming association was another attempt by Caesars to derail the competition according to the Press of Atlantic City, he then went on to say this about Caesars: “I’m fed up with these guys and their ‘holier than thou crap,’”

Last edited by *TT*; 03-05-2013 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:25 AM   #21
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

This brief may have been filed with the DGE in NJ by the AGA, but it might as well have been filed by Harry Reid in the US Senate, this isn't just about CZRS wanting to keep PokerStars out of NJ - an issue reasonable minds could disagree on - this is about reenforcing the AGA message that unless there is a Federal bill funneling all i-gaming through their NV regulated members, a race to the bottom will ensue.

Whether or not i-gaming takes place where the server is located, where the player is located, or both is still unsettled international law, but according to the very bill PokerStars is seeking to be licensed under, the State of NJ believes i-gaming occurs where the servers are located - and PokerStars obviously never operated unlicensed servers in NJ.

Issuing a death sentence blocking PokerStars from the NJ market as a penalty for a for a Federal crime (UIGEA) which they've already paid a steep penalty to the DOJ would violate the constitutional principals of due process, bill of attainder, double jeopardy and the dormant Commerce Clause doctrine.

But that pales in comparison to the real travesty being perpetrated here, this isn't just about NJ, this is about the AGA attempting to establish it's membership as the only ones worthy of being trusted to serve i-gaming in the US, so whether or not one has an interest in the NJ i-gaming market, anyone with an interest in further i-gaming expansion in the US should be opposed to what the AGA is attempting to accomplish here.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:48 AM   #22
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

American Gaming Association has no chance in this, it appears they haven't even followed the agreement with Pokerstars and The Department of Justice when making the claims they do.

They're making fools of themselves and if anything this is going to cause anger towards them from people just wanting decent software up asap. The anger will surely gossip it's way to every citizen that is thinking about what site they're going to play at.

Oh did I get the point across that this is very pathetic and everyone knows it's just self interest group trying to grab money???
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:16 AM   #23
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

This just makes it seem to me that other NJ operators are worried about how they will compete with PokerStars who has set the bar so high. The best thing for the NJ poker ecosystem would be to have PokerStars in it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #24
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

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This just makes it seem to me that other NJ operators are worried about how they will compete with PokerStars who has set the bar so high. The best thing for the NJ poker ecosystem would be to have PokerStars in it.
There is a lot of talk about fairness, but remember this. Pokerstars built it's advantage in the industry by flouting US law for years, while the casino interests here stayed away from the illegal enterprise.

So who really has the unfair competitive advantage? It seems to me that would be Pokerstars.

Plus, I really think that you will all be surprised by the quality of the product that comes out of NV/NJ . . . it's not going to be crap software, it will be cutting edge. Most likely two years from now players will be saying "Pokerstars who?"
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:53 AM   #25
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Re: American Gaming Association (AGA) filed a brief in opposition of PokerStars in NJ

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it's not going to be crap software, it will be cutting edge.
What are you basing this assertion on?
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