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Old 07-23-2015, 10:54 AM   #1
OurSurveySays
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AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Dear pads1161,

We would like to inform you of a policy change taking effect on August 1st, 2015 that may impact you. From August 1st, 2015 going forward, players will no longer receive VIP Player Points (VPPs) for participation in PokerStars Live Events. Note that this policy does not impact how players earn FPPs for online play, only the VIP Player Points given for live event play.

We are committed to making sure that 2015 VIP Rewards are not materially impacted throughout the year, and so to ensure that you are not impacted in 2015, the following procedure will apply for 2015 VIP Club Rewards:

-In January 2016, we will review our records and any player who would have earned additional Stellar Rewards or Milestone Cash Credits through earning Live Event VPPs will be manually credited their full value by January 31, 2016.

-From August 1st 2015 thru January 1, 2016, if you believe that you would have maintained or earned a higher status as result of live play this year, please contact us at vipclub@pokerstars.com. We will review your case, manually upgrade your VIP Status, and credit any discrepancy in FPPs earned to ensure no negative impact.

The above procedure applies exclusively to 2015. In 2016, no VPPs will be accumulated through Live Events nor exceptions made for VIP Status requirements.

If you have any questions about this, please contact us at vipclub@pokerstars.com

Kind Regards,
The PokerStars VIP Team
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:09 AM   #2
gettym
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Just got back from LAPT Peru where they literally had no dealer buttons and players that qualified online didn't get the goodie bags they usually give out. Cutting costs at every opportunity.


The staff that runs the events there did a fantastic job and I really enjoyed the festival/schedule of events but it did seem likely to me that they're working with less budget than they should have.

Last edited by gettym; 07-23-2015 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:23 AM   #3
IceIceman
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

and it will only get worse
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:31 AM   #4
DarkMattersMan
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

**** stars. They are a joke and I honestly hope and prey that the likes of Ipoker and Microgaming, 888 and Party begin to outflop them.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:33 AM   #5
Pudge714
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Announcing this in the middle of the calendar year and implementing it immediately seems unfair to people going for elite and other bonuses. I'd like to see VPPs for live events continue, but I understand if they want to get rid of them. At least they should keep it through the end of the calendar year.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:52 AM   #6
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
Announcing this in the middle of the calendar year and implementing it immediately seems unfair to people going for elite and other bonuses. I'd like to see VPPs for live events continue, but I understand if they want to get rid of them. At least they should keep it through the end of the calendar year.
That seems very reasonable. Pokerstars should take this into consideration when bonuses are involved.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:25 PM   #7
PeteBlow
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

They stopped the goodie bags at UKIPTs too. They are just giving out Tshirts and old stock of mice and Bluetooth speakers
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:36 PM   #8
A_Schupick
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
Announcing this in the middle of the calendar year and implementing it immediately seems unfair to people going for elite and other bonuses. I'd like to see VPPs for live events continue, but I understand if they want to get rid of them. At least they should keep it through the end of the calendar year.
I think the proposal they have is fairly reasonable though. Any player who would have earned the next level will be manually credited at the end of the year. So no one really loses anything this year, if they were on the boarder.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:42 PM   #9
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

^ Yeah, but it shows a deep level of desperation. If they did this at all, the old PS would have announced it and just said it will take effect from the next year.

That a company which enjoys monopoly profits of >$1m per day seeks to penny-pinch from its customers at every opportunity demonstrates incredible short-sightedness.

Changes are fine but when they keep coming and they're all in one direction (as well as being implemented in unhelpful ways) they become counter productive because the effects in destroying goodwill and annoying/deterring their customers just outweigh the value of the pennies they pinch.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:01 PM   #10
Pudge714
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick View Post
I think the proposal they have is fairly reasonable though. Any player who would have earned the next level will be manually credited at the end of the year. So no one really loses anything this year, if they were on the boarder.
I read the e-mail as only being for cash bonuses and not for VIP levels.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:25 PM   #11
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
I read the e-mail as only being for cash bonuses and not for VIP levels.
Players need to learn that negative changes to the profitability, security, or integrity of the game (former in this case)...need to be accompanied with rake % decreases...

Obviously we shouldn't expect such a policy, as it would be viewed as absurd by amaya stars...but this is where the balance can be calculated and/or offset and so it should be the players political basis for a cohesive protest vs clearly unfavorable change.

It is often argued such monies are saved and used for other promotions that will grow the economy of the game. Quite the bush style argument since such favorable growth COULD be easily quantifiable and so factually justified.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:30 PM   #12
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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Originally Posted by VitoGotti View Post
They are not short sighted. They probably do not feel a small percent of winning poker players bring much long term shareholder value to the company.
That's by definition short sighted, silly logic, and unsustainable. The only thing holding such a silly business model up is government regulations and payment processor restrictions.
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:20 AM   #13
Giroudgeous
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
They stopped the goodie bags at UKIPTs too. They are just giving out Tshirts and old stock of mice and Bluetooth speakers
So bad that they don't give you a bag for all that stuff now.
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:40 AM   #14
Monorail
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick;47635865[B
]I think the proposal they have is fairly reasonable though. Any player who would have earned the next level will be manually credited at the end of the year.[/B] So no one really loses anything this year, if they were on the boarder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raidalot View Post
^ Yeah, but it shows a deep level of desperation. If they did this at all, the old PS would have announced it and just said it will take effect from the next year.
Policy seems pretty reasonable to me...complaining 'yeah, it's not what you said, it's how you said it' seems kind of weak.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:09 AM   #15
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

^ My point related to both what and how.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:17 AM   #16
Sect7G
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

I don't think removing VPP's is desperation but more an act of greed. If they can do this and they feel the benefits exceed the loss then it's deemed good business from their POV.

As Raidalot said the issue is not this small minute case but the overall trend. It's not a case of we are taking a bit from here and giving some more there. It's take, take, take.

Just because a loose penny doesn't quantify to instant value for the company doesn't mean that it's a penny spent unwisely. If a player feels that Stars isn't stingy it makes a player feel better about the overall state of the site even if he himself isn't taking advantage of the promo/loose penny.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:21 PM   #17
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
Announcing this in the middle of the calendar year and implementing it immediately seems unfair to people going for elite and other bonuses. I'd like to see VPPs for live events continue, but I understand if they want to get rid of them. At least they should keep it through the end of the calendar year.
Sup Pudge,

effectively this is what they have done(although better from a sneaky business POV). Their effectivly freerolling the cutbacks this year, banking on some players not bothered or not having the information knowledge to contact them to make a case for manual adjustments. Good for Amya, bad for players. More of these things will come into play in the future as many operators look to spread the value of their offerings throughout the site not just to regular players.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:41 PM   #18
LostOstrich
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

I remember being surprised and delighted when I discovered I was awarded VPPs for playing UKIPT. Made very little sense to me that they were just giving this free money away.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:22 PM   #19
JPlithey
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
I don't think removing VPP's is desperation but more an act of greed. If they can do this and they feel the benefits exceed the loss then it's deemed good business from their POV.

As Raidalot said the issue is not this small minute case but the overall trend. It's not a case of we are taking a bit from here and giving some more there. It's take, take, take.

Just because a loose penny doesn't quantify to instant value for the company doesn't mean that it's a penny spent unwisely. If a player feels that Stars isn't stingy it makes a player feel better about the overall state of the site even if he himself isn't taking advantage of the promo/loose penny.
You surprise me. Firstly I think we should be able to agree a business capitalizing on profits isn't greedy but the right of the free (and good working!) world. Aside from that point I think it really is clearly desperation. In a vacuum it might not seem so but somehow you filtered out the entire last year of changes, policies, and horrid customer service. Poker has a long term downtrend and the only thing that is propping up amayas numbers vs this trend is little tricks like buying up competition.

On another forum this was discussed as a sort of expansion into different games (casino etc.), but what seems more obvious is that one of the ways to stay afloat is to buy up competition. I think what I mean to say is that none of these actions are sustainable. And they are built on ripping off the customer of their historical value. (where as typically efficiency gained would at least SOMEWHAT be shared with the customer!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyScout View Post
Sup Pudge,

effectively this is what they have done(although better from a sneaky business POV). Their effectivly freerolling the cutbacks this year, banking on some players not bothered or not having the information knowledge to contact them to make a case for manual adjustments. Good for Amya, bad for players. More of these things will come into play in the future as many operators look to spread the value of their offerings throughout the site not just to regular players.
Good for amaya shorterm. But what they and others are ignoring is that poker players are getting better at poker. This means that the average or worse player is starting to think about and ask about rake and effective rake. The average player knows about poker forums and value of money exchanged for chips has become a standard topic, not just around pros.

Banking on an ignorant field is simply cutting out the significant portion of your market because there is less and less ignorance as time goes by. Such is the nature of poker especially vs other games. What we are seeing here is "lag", it will clearly "bite" amaya, full tilt, and any other sites that follows such terrible business practice and customer service.

In the meantime players need to simply create the collective understanding that anytime the quality or profitability of the game is effected it should be accompanied with a rake % decrease. This is the easiest simplest way for players to coalesce.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:13 PM   #20
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

All the Level 1 thinkers ITT . . .

You are all failing to see the forest for the trees.
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Old 07-24-2015, 10:47 PM   #21
OurSurveySays
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

Some big news coming up in next couple of days. Pretty tilting.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:16 PM   #22
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
Some big news coming up in next couple of days. Pretty tilting.
What you mean?
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:48 AM   #23
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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All the Level 1 thinkers ITT . . .

You are all failing to see the forest for the trees.
Forest for the trees? try again.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:48 AM   #24
FakeVariance
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

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Originally Posted by raidalot View Post
^ Yeah, but it shows a deep level of desperation. If they did this at all, the old PS would have announced it and just said it will take effect from the next year.

That a company which enjoys monopoly profits of >$1m per day seeks to penny-pinch from its customers at every opportunity demonstrates incredible short-sightedness.

Changes are fine but when they keep coming and they're all in one direction (as well as being implemented in unhelpful ways) they become counter productive because the effects in destroying goodwill and annoying/deterring their customers just outweigh the value of the pennies they pinch.
^ This
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:53 AM   #25
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Re: AmayaStars remove VPPs from Live events, starting August 1st.

They need to change their ****ing name already. They are not pokerstars, that **** died when the old owner sold to a company that puts share holders first instead of the costumers being first. **** any publicly traded company, seems like **** works out better with privately held companies. It is as if once share holders come into the fray it's just an all out cashgrab/war for the manies.
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