Amaya Agrees to Acquire Rational Group *See OP for PokerStars Statement* - Page 5 - Poker News

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Amaya Agrees to Acquire Rational Group *See OP for PokerStars Statement*

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06-13-2014 , 07:01 AM

#101

dvdaldo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 294

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parlay Slow

That's completely wrong. Capex, intetest on debt and taxes are excluded from EBITDA and are actually cash movement.

Yes, which is what I was saying. Quoting the EBITDA figure and saying it was 'pure profit' is misleading, as the vast majority of the costs for companies in this sector is infact the D&A elements....

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06-13-2014 , 07:10 AM

#102

ahnuld

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 17,592

deal is 10x ebitda, not cheap but probably fair given ebitda jumps huge if Baazov can get ps and ft back in USA.

Not a reverse merger. Amaya just raising tons of cash through new debt issuances, pref issuances and an equity raise.

Better chance of getting into the US because Amaya already works with a bunch of casino operators in NJ and NV so regulators are already comfortable with the team.

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06-13-2014 , 07:30 AM

#103

Secu

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 58

When the best changes, it's never a good change.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 07:33 AM

#104

zawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 182

RIP pokerstars

Quote

06-13-2014 , 07:43 AM

#105

The Camel

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,202

I'm no financial expert, but this cannot be good news for players.

The new owners taking on a huge debt liability will mean it won't be long until the try and increase revenue by raising rake or cutting costs. Or both.

In before Pokerstars goes the same way as Party Poker.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 07:47 AM

#106

tapouttazz9

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 528

I'm no expert but sometimes there is good debt. Ps now has a big opertunity to re enter the us market. How is that not a good thing?

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:00 AM

#107

ravager 102

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 602

if you are supernova elite rb grinder I would start sending out my resume today

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06-13-2014 , 08:00 AM

#108

The Camel

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,202

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapouttazz9

I'm no expert but sometimes there is good debt. Ps now has a big opertunity to re enter the us market. How is that not a good thing?

Online poker is not a stable industry.

Countries can leave the market on the whim of a government at a few days notice.

Who knows which countries will or will not allow their citizens to play online poker in 3 years time?

$5 billion seems like an awful lot of money for something so unstable as an online poker site.

Amaya will be under pressure to repay the debt quickly, especially if revenue drops initially.

I can easily see Stars going to same way as Party, segregating cash games, charging for withdrawals etc etc etc

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06-13-2014 , 08:01 AM

#109

ahnuld

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 17,592

guys, the debt doesnt matter and wont affect anything about the games.

amaya will be under no obligation to pay it off quickly.

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06-13-2014 , 08:04 AM

#110

The Camel

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,202

What percentage of the current Pokerstars playing population is Russian?

10?

Would it surprise anyone if Putin and his mob decided they as weren't getting anything from Stars, he bans Russians from playing online poker one day?

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06-13-2014 , 08:09 AM

#111

PTLou

JellyBean

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,516

Amaya webcast on deal 8:30 EST.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/webcast/detail/1371129/1519499

full slide deck avail

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06-13-2014 , 08:15 AM

#112

wrongfoot

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 77

I dont have an overtly positive feeling about this. Brand will survive though but it wont be the same.

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06-13-2014 , 08:15 AM

#113

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,400

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Camel

I'm no financial expert, but this cannot be good news for players.

The new owners taking on a huge debt liability will mean it won't be long until the try and increase revenue by raising rake or cutting costs. Or both.

In before Pokerstars goes the same way as Party Poker.

This is ridiculous logic.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:20 AM

#114

The Camel

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,202

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeleaB

This is ridiculous logic.

Tell me why Party went from a decent poker site to the worst after floating?

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:21 AM

#115

vaJAZzled

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 547

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahnuld

I kinda agree with this in that the multiple is not cheap in absolute terms or across all time periods. But, it does look cheap vs. the valuations that all things Internet are commanding right now, and also considering how high margin/cash generative the business is.

Actually, from this multiple I would infer that unless they are expecting the current earnings base I.e. from ROW players to be very low growth or in decline, then they are not really paying that much for the option on US growth and therefore have lowish conviction that it may happen despite their statements to the contrary.

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06-13-2014 , 08:33 AM

#116

Alex_Striker

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Camel

Tell me why Party went from a decent poker site to the worst after floating?

Because they fell woefully behind after the passage of the UIGEA so they elected for gimmicks and radical changes in an attempt to keep up with the two largest sites at the time?

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06-13-2014 , 08:36 AM

#117

Alex_Striker

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 403

Is it too late to get on board the doom and gloom train? That seems to be the default reaction around here for most any news.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:40 AM

#118

Solncev

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciolist

The Scheinbergs made PokerStars - if they're out then it doesn't necessarily mean that PokerStars will remain the same company that we all like and respect.

Exactly my thoughts.I'm not excited about this deal.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:45 AM

#119

ShipItYo

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,041

So what does this mean for online poker in the US? Is it all speculation at this point or is there any indication that pokerstars might re-enter the US market?

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06-13-2014 , 08:45 AM

#120

Alex_Striker

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 403

Webcast starting now.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 08:51 AM

#121

fnord_too

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciolist

The Scheinbergs made PokerStars - if they're out then it doesn't necessarily mean that PokerStars will remain the same company that we all like and respect.

While this is certainly true, playing on NJ sites, I would welcome the software improvements. My dream would be for them to partner with UP who has great CS but pretty bad software. The branding and technical assets would be huge, especially if and when compacts start to happen.

Last edited by fnord_too; 06-13-2014 at 09:01 AM.

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06-13-2014 , 08:51 AM

#122

Warteen

[ ] wears the pants

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,323

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyoman

Guys, it's in.

This is huge.

That's what she said.

Last edited by Warteen; 06-13-2014 at 08:52 AM. Reason: ...is a forum that needs to hear this important news!

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06-13-2014 , 09:05 AM

#123

Solncev

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Camel

Russians already forbidden to gamble online. http://www.cardschat.com/news/russia...ker-sites-1916

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06-13-2014 , 09:06 AM

#124

JohnFR

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,365

5 years from now we will all look back on this day as a horrible day for online poker.

Quote

06-13-2014 , 09:08 AM

#125

Solncev

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 249

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFR

5 years from now we will all look back on this day as a horrible day for online poker.

Quote

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